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Mona Pereth
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31 Oct 2024, 8:41 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
The awakening of young American Jews, posted October 24, 2024:



Al Jazeera documentary about young American Jews who (1) were raised to identify with the state of Israel, but then (2) eventually came to understand the Palestinian POV.

Although it appears on Al Jazeera's channel, it was apparently not made by Al Jazeera. I'm not yet sure exactly who made it, but I just now ran into another copy of it here, where it is identified as "Israelism - A never-ending war for the Holy Land? | Israel Palestine War | ENDEVR Documentary."

I also came across ISRAELISM | Official Trailer on the YouTube channel of Tikkun Olam Films.

Sometime later I will try to determine the actual provenance of this video.

Al Jazeera's channel describes the video as follows:

Quote:
When two young American Jews raised to support Israel unconditionally witness the way Israel treats Palestinians, it changes their lives. They join a movement of young American Jews campaigning to redefine Judaism’s relationship with Israel and reveal a deepening generational divide over modern Jewish identity. Israelism sparked huge debate on American campuses even before the events of October 7, 2023.

It follows Simone Zimmerman, who visited Israel as a teenager, and Eitan who joined the Israeli army after graduating from high school as they discover the reality for Palestinians and radically revise their views. It includes interviews with academics and political activists, including Noam Chomsky, Cornel West, Lara Friedman and a former director of the Anti-Defamation League, Abe Foxman.

Contributors suggest the narrative that young American Jews are fed almost entirely erases the existence of the Palestinians through education and advocacy, sometimes involving groups that organise free trips to Israel partially funded by the Israeli government.

This film describes how influential this narrative is in shaping attitudes to Israel, not just in the United States but across the world.


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31 Oct 2024, 9:22 am

I just now came across an Al Jazeera video about the "Israelism" documentary: 'Israelism': How deep do indoctrination and Israeli army glorification go? | Talk to Al Jazeera



Quote:
The documentary Israelism examines the rift among Jews regarding Palestine, highlighting young people's increasing criticism of Israel and Zionism.

This divide is driven by firsthand accounts of Israel's actions in Gaza and the occupied West Bank.

As the film faces opposition from groups trying to cancel its screenings, its main protagonist, Simone Zimmerman, and its co-director and producer, Erin Axelman, talk to Al Jazeera.


I also came across the following Middle East Eye video, another interview with Simone Zimmerman: Why so many young Jews are turning on Israel | Simone Zimmerman | The Big Picture S4E7



Quote:
“I was definitely raised to be a Jewish leader of some kind.”

With college campuses all over the US gripped by intense battles around free speech, antisemitism and Palestinian rights - the voices of young Jewish Americans have led the way.

One of the boldest and most prominent voices is that of Simone Zimmerman.

Zimmerman was raised in a conservative Zionist household, taught to idolise and support Israel as the highest aspiration of all young Jewish Americans like her.

But as she got older, she began to question whether there was another side to Israel she was being sheltered from - and when she sought answers, she was shocked at what she discovered.

Prompted by conversations with Palestinians under occupation and Jewish activists, she went home and began to organise in an attempt to stop her government’s military support for Israel, and as she puts it, “live out the values of justice I was raised on”.

On the frontlines of protests in campuses and halls of power, she suddenly found herself a target of accusations by pro-Israeli groups, who now called her “antisemitic” and threatening her online.

After October 7, she became more determined than ever to challenge the beliefs in her community about Israel, and the reluctance by many to see the horrific reality of what’s happening in Gaza.

This week on The Big Picture, we sit down with Simone Zimmerman to talk about her story, which has been documented in a provocative new documentary called ‘Israelism’, and whether we’re witnessing a turning point in how young Jewish-Americans see Israel, and how young Americans see their government’s support for the occupation.


And on the YouTube channel of Democracy Now: New Film Examines American Jews’ Growing Rejection of Israel’s Occupation:



Quote:
The new documentary Israelism examines the growing generational divide among Jewish Americans on the question of Palestine, with many younger Jews increasingly critical of Israel and less supportive of Zionism. Simone Zimmerman, one of the protagonists of the film and a co-founder of the group IfNotNow, says she grew up being told that supporting Israel was central to her Jewish identity, but that collapsed once she visited the Occupied Palestinian Territories and saw the system of apartheid under which millions live. “It’s so deeply contrary to our values as Jewish people to support this disgusting oppression and denial of freedom,” she says. We are also joined by Erin Axelman, co-director and one of the producers of Israelism, who says Zimmerman’s journey mirrors their own and those of many other young Jews who realize they “must fight for the freedom and equality of Palestinians while also fighting antisemitism.” The film is on a 40-city screening tour in Canada and the United States after previous efforts to ban the screenings on several campuses.

Transcript


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01 Nov 2024, 2:09 am

Another interview with the producer and protagonists of Israelism: How A Former Zionist SAW THROUGH Israel’s Propaganda, on Katie Halper's YouTube channel.



From the description on YouTube:

Quote:
Katie talks to Jewish American filmmakers Erin Axelman and Sam Eilertsen and Jewish American activist Simone Zimmerman as they discuss their controversial and frequently banned documentary "Israelism" about the way young Jews are rejecting zionism. In this clip they share how they went from Zionist to critic of Israel.

Erin Axelman is a queer Jewish filmmaker based out of Massachusetts. They are the co-director and producer of "Israelism," which is their directorial debut.

Sam Eilertsen is the co-director and director of photography of "Israelism." They are the co-founder of Tikkun Olam Productions, and the director of the upcoming projects Generation Green New Deal and Vs Goliath.

Simone Zimmerman is a progressive Jewish activist originally from Los Angeles. She is a co-founder of IfNotNow, the former head of B'tselem US, and currently works with Diaspora Alliance on issues of antisemitism and Palestinian rights.


Also on the Katie Halper show: an interview with another anti-Zionist Jew, Zachary Foster, in “Going To Israel Made Me Anti-Zionist” - Former Zionist Jew



From the description on YouTube:

Quote:
Zachary Foster and Katie discuss the history of Anti-Zionism and its connection with antisemitism.

Zachary Foster has a Ph.D in Near Eastern Studies from Princeton University. He is a Fellow at the Rutgers Center for Security, Race and Rights. He runs a digital archive called Palestine Nexus and writes a newsletter called Palestine, in Your Inbox.


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01 Nov 2024, 6:49 pm

My brother lives in Israel, always lights, sirens and back to the bomb shelter.
I'm surprised he hasn't being called for army service, already saying orthodox must do army service which is insane.
I'm better off telling my brother I'm being orthodox than saying it's cruel to do that to Palestine.
He used to be friendly with some of the Arabs, like me he has odd friends, doesn't fit into society. Suddenly he's offended by my cat Steven video I sent, now I'm on wrong foot. Can't see myself saying shma israhel.
He lives in our old saftas house, it is in middle of Tel-Aviv and has no electricity and can't be sold due to error on paperwork. What a mitzvah, because he doesn't really earn a lot and tax there is terrible. I told him to come back to South Africa to start kibbutz, and i send him info on kosher bread, how to test for gluton intolerance.
My brother worked a job that no one else wanted, when he treated badly the Arabs he worked with were his friends. This is us with autism, and sadly he never really fitted in.
This I share with others, he is my brother and he's on border of this war!! !



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02 Nov 2024, 2:22 pm

Ursula wrote:
My brother lives in Israel, always lights, sirens and back to the bomb shelter.
I'm surprised he hasn't being called for army service, already saying orthodox must do army service which is insane.


It seems even more insane to give all sorts of special treatment to the Haredim.


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02 Nov 2024, 10:37 pm

Anti-Zionist rabbi: 'Don't stay silent' w/Brant Rosen | The Marc Steiner Show, Oct 29, 2024:



From the intro on YouTube:

Quote:
The movement in solidarity with Palestine has a sizable presence of progressive Jewish Americans. As an anti-Zionist rabbi, Brant Rosen has made it his life's work to build religious and cultural community for other likeminded Jews whose solidarity with Palestine runs deep. The Marc Steiner Show returns with another edition of 'Not in Our Name.'


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03 Nov 2024, 2:19 am

Note: Although the following video is very interesting, I will need to know more about its provenance before I consider it to be reliable info. I would very much appreciate it if anyone here can help me track down its original source.

20,000 Jews denounce Zionism



The description on YouTube says:

Quote:
During an Orthodox Jewish Rally in 2017 in a Brooklyn baskeball court pledge to oppose forced conscription by the Zionist army, an articulate rabbi denounces the anti-semitism inherent in Zionism from its inception.

The description does not say which specific branch of Orthodox Judaism, nor exactly when and where this rally took place (beyond "a Brooklyn basketball court" sometime in 2017), nor who filmed it, nor how or from whom the video was obtained by the owners of the channel on which I found it (the Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign -- obviously, not the original source).


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ASPartOfMe
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03 Nov 2024, 8:20 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Note: Although the following video is very interesting, I will need to know more about its provenance before I consider it to be reliable info. I would very much appreciate it if anyone here can help me track down its original source.

20,000 Jews denounce Zionism



The description on YouTube says:

Quote:
During an Orthodox Jewish Rally in 2017 in a Brooklyn baskeball court pledge to oppose forced conscription by the Zionist army, an articulate rabbi denounces the anti-semitism inherent in Zionism from its inception.

The description does not say which specific branch of Orthodox Judaism, nor exactly when and where this rally took place (beyond "a Brooklyn basketball court" sometime in 2017), nor who filmed it, nor how or from whom the video was obtained by the owners of the channel on which I found it (the Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign -- obviously, not the original source).

Just by viewing it I can tell the rally was held in the Barkley Center. Without knowing the rabbi’s knowledge of the history of zionism I have no way of knowing how reliable he is. That said intense and continuous studying is a hallmark of observant Jews and many orthodox jews are anti-Zionists.


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03 Nov 2024, 8:06 pm

Apparently some older Jewish Zionists are starting to notice, and worry, that many younger Jews are turning away from Zionism.

Liberal US rabbi melts down at Jewish anti-Zionists, on the (anti-Zionist) YouTube channel of The Grayzone, Oct 16, 2024:



Description on YouTube:

Quote:
The Grayzone's Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate on the unhinged Yom Kippur sermon by Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch slamming young American Jews for opposing Israel's wars on Gaza and Lebanon, and protesting the country's system of apartheid.


Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch is the senior rabbi of Stephen Wise Free Synagogue, a Reform synagogue on Manhattan’s Upper West Side in New York City.

His sermon is also discussed in the news article Is anti-Zionism a sin? We asked the rabbi whose viral Yom Kippur sermon begged the question: "A Q&A with Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch of Stephen Wise Free Synagogue," by Louis Keene, Forward, October 14, 2024.

At least Hirsch has admitted that there is now a significant and growing number of young anti-Zionist Jews, rather than just dismissing them as a tiny insignificant fringe, as many Zionists have tended to do when the topic of anti-Zionist Jews is brought up.


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03 Nov 2024, 10:51 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Ursula wrote:
My brother lives in Israel, always lights, sirens and back to the bomb shelter.
I'm surprised he hasn't being called for army service, already saying orthodox must do army service which is insane.


It seems even more insane to give all sorts of special treatment to the Haredim.

Back in the day, nearly all Haredim were anti-Zionist, so drafting them would have been asking for mutiny.

Subsequently, more and more Haredim have become Zionists, although many are still anti-Zionist. According to Pew Research, March 8, 2016:

Quote:
Only a third of Haredim (33%) say the term Zionist describes them accurately – perhaps reflecting the ambivalence some Haredim have long felt about the formation of a Jewish state before the arrival of the Messiah


EDIT: An article about recent some developments on this matter: srael’s military starts drafting ultra-Orthodox Jews – but the battle over serving ‘the army of God’ vs. the army of the state isn’t over, and points to key questions for the country’s future by Michael Brenner, The Conversation, July 31, 2024.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 04 Nov 2024, 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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04 Nov 2024, 12:13 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Apparently some older Jewish Zionists are starting to notice, and worry, that many younger Jews are turning away from Zionism.

Liberal US rabbi melts down at Jewish anti-Zionists, on the (anti-Zionist) YouTube channel of The Grayzone, Oct 16, 2024:



Description on YouTube:

Quote:
The Grayzone's Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate on the unhinged Yom Kippur sermon by Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch slamming young American Jews for opposing Israel's wars on Gaza and Lebanon, and protesting the country's system of apartheid.


Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch is the senior rabbi of Stephen Wise Free Synagogue, a Reform synagogue on Manhattan’s Upper West Side in New York City.

His sermon is also discussed in the news article Is anti-Zionism a sin? We asked the rabbi whose viral Yom Kippur sermon begged the question: "A Q&A with Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch of Stephen Wise Free Synagogue," by Louis Keene, Forward, October 14, 2024.

At least Hirsch has admitted that there is now a significant and growing number of young anti-Zionist Jews, rather than just dismissing them as a tiny insignificant fringe, as many Zionists have tended to do when the topic of anti-Zionist Jews is brought up.


While younger Jews are more anti zionist then older Jews many anti zionists have successfully given the false impression that a majority of young Jews are anti zionist.

Survey Reports on Jewish Students’ Experiences at U.S. Colleges
Quote:
The study was done by Eitan Hersh, A05, professor of political science, for the Jim Joseph Foundation, which seeks to promote Jewish education in the U.S. The study began in 2022, using data from College Pulse, a survey research and analytics company that focuses on higher education. In 2022, only Jewish students were surveyed, but in subsequent years non-Jewish students on college campuses with significant Jewish populations were included.

What are the main takeaways from the study?
One is that the students who are Jewish tend to feel connected to Israel—it’s an important part of their identity—and it’s not about the politics of Israel. Many of those Jewish students have the worst things to say about the Netanyahu government, but for religious, cultural, ethnic, and family reasons, many feel that Israel is important to who they are.

And the view that they have, which is that there needs to be a Jewish country, basically is really unpopular with some segment of the student population.

The other is that compared to 2022, there is a doubling of students saying that they hide their Jewish identity to fit in on their campus. A lot of the Jewish students we surveyed don’t necessarily like the conduct of the war, but they can’t give up this part of their identity so easily and they don’t intend to—and they don’t want to be socially ostracized.

underlining=mine:

If Rabbi Hirsch believes zionists have lost control of young Jews he has bought into BS.

Rabbi Hirsch by wanting to exclude anti zionist Jews is a useful idiot for Jew haters. When you are two percent of the population a schism is the last thing that is needed.

Personal Note:
A cousin of mine of is a Gen Z trans woman active in trans causes. For carrying a pride flag with a Jewish star she was called a Nazi. When she announced she was voting for Harris she was called a traitor and a kapo(Jewish concentration camp prisoners who worked for the SS guards)

Off Topic
I have read numerous anti Zionists imply that pro zionists no matter what they say are really against any criticism of Israel. As usual there is some truth but the claim is misleading. Back when we were growing up there was a stigma against Jews criticizing Israel. Besides the usual it gives aide and comfort to the enemy the belief was it was improper for Jews living in the safety of America to tell Israel what to do. It is naive to think there are not zionist advocates who are being disingenuous. That said I have never heard of any zionist in recent years say that any criticism of Israel is antisemitic. The Jewish students surveyed do not feel that way. The controversial IHRA definition of antisemitism says “criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic”. Since we are using videos, these Israelis did not get the memo that critiquing the government of Israel is an anti zionist act




The makers of the gotcha video are perpetrating a conspiracy theory
It is true that zionists in Germany made a deal with the Nazis which Rabbi Wise opposed.

Haavara Agreement
Quote:
The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: הֶסְכֵּם הַעֲבָרָה, romanized: heskem haavara, lit. 'transfer agreement') was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. It was a major factor in making possible the migration of approximately 60,000 German Jews to Palestine between 1933 and 1939.

The agreement enabled Jews fleeing persecution under the new Nazi regime to transfer some portion of their assets to British Mandatory Palestine.Emigrants sold their assets in Germany to pay for essential goods (manufactured in Germany) to be shipped to Mandatory Palestine.[The agreement was controversial and was criticised by Revisionist Zionist leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky and by some non-Zionist Jews, as well as by members of both the Nazi Party and the German public.For German Jews, the agreement offered a way to leave an increasingly hostile environment in Germany; for the Yishuv, the Jewish community in Palestine, it offered access to both immigrant labour and economic support; for the Germans it facilitated the emigration of German Jews while breaking the anti-Nazi boycott of 1933, which had mass support among European and American Jews and was thought by the German state to be a potential threat to the German economy.

The agreement was controversial both within the Nazi party and in the Zionist movement As historian Edwin Black put it, "The Transfer Agreement tore the Jewish world apart, turning leader against leader, threatening rebellion and even assassination."Opposition came from the mainstream US leadership of the World Zionist Congress, in particular Abba Hillel Silver and American Jewish Congress president Rabbi Stephen Wise. Wise and other leaders of the Anti-Nazi boycott of 1933 argued against the agreement, narrowly failing to persuade the Nineteenth Zionist Congress in August 1935 to vote against it.


Even if Rabbi Wise did make some secret deal in the 1930s that should not mean the current Rabbi has no “right” to opine on “being useful idiots for the enemy”


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Mona Pereth
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04 Nov 2024, 2:58 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

The article doesn't say during what months of the year the surveys were taken. That could make a huge difference, it seems to me.

I would expect: (1) an upsurge in pro-Israel sentiment among young American Jews (and at least some other people too) right after October 7, 2023, and perhaps even into early 2024, but then (2) more and more criticism of Israel, and eventually more and more rejection of Zionism altogether, as the war dragged on and on during 2024, with more and more inexcusable Israeli atrocities for young Zionist Jews to feel ashamed of.

By the way, one part of the article you didn't quote is this sentence:

Quote:
An increasing number of students also reported that they felt a need to hide their Jewish identity to fit in on their campus and hide some of their opinions to fit in at Jewish activities on their campus, following a year of college-campus protests around the Israel-Hamas war.

Sounds like a lot of Jewish students are/were feeling pressure from both directions and feel caught in the middle.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Personal Note:
A cousin of mine of is a Gen Z trans woman active in trans causes. For carrying a pride flag with a Jewish star she was called a Nazi.

Alas, a Jewish star on a background of horizontal stripes, of whatever color(s), will remind most people of the Israeli flag, and some of Israel's recent behavior has indeed been rather Nazi-like.

Still I think it was wrong to call her a Nazi.

But I think it would not have been out of line to request that she not carry such a flag, and to propose alternatives. For example, hopefully there would be no objection to her wearing a Jewish star necklace. Or perhaps she could carry a rainbow flag with some other Jewish symbol superimposed on it, such as a menorah.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
When she announced she was voting for Harris she was called a traitor and a kapo(Jewish concentration camp prisoners who worked for the SS guards)

Uh oh. That's VERY bad news. If Trump gets elected, it will likely be because of people with this attitude.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Off Topic
I have read numerous anti Zionists imply that pro zionists no matter what they say are really against any criticism of Israel. As usual there is some truth but the claim is misleading. Back when we were growing up there was a stigma against Jews criticizing Israel. Besides the usual it gives aide and comfort to the enemy the belief was it was improper for Jews living in the safety of America to tell Israel what to do. It is naive to think there are not zionist advocates who are being disingenuous. That said I have never heard of any zionist in recent years say that any criticism of Israel is antisemitic. The Jewish students surveyed do not feel that way. The controversial IHRA definition of antisemitism says “criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic”.

But the IHRA’s Working definition of antisemitism does include the following:

Quote:
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

The problem is that the state of Israel came into existence by forcibly expelling the the vast majority of the people who were already there. Ethnic groups don't automatically have the right to an ethno-state. There's no ethno-state for the Roma and Sinti, for example.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Off Topic
The makers of the gotcha video are perpetrating a conspiracy theory
It is true that zionists in Germany made a deal with the Nazis which Rabbi Wise opposed.

Haavara Agreement
Quote:
The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: הֶסְכֵּם הַעֲבָרָה, romanized: heskem haavara, lit. 'transfer agreement') was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. It was a major factor in making possible the migration of approximately 60,000 German Jews to Palestine between 1933 and 1939.

The agreement enabled Jews fleeing persecution under the new Nazi regime to transfer some portion of their assets to British Mandatory Palestine.Emigrants sold their assets in Germany to pay for essential goods (manufactured in Germany) to be shipped to Mandatory Palestine.[The agreement was controversial and was criticised by Revisionist Zionist leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky and by some non-Zionist Jews, as well as by members of both the Nazi Party and the German public.For German Jews, the agreement offered a way to leave an increasingly hostile environment in Germany; for the Yishuv, the Jewish community in Palestine, it offered access to both immigrant labour and economic support; for the Germans it facilitated the emigration of German Jews while breaking the anti-Nazi boycott of 1933, which had mass support among European and American Jews and was thought by the German state to be a potential threat to the German economy.

The agreement was controversial both within the Nazi party and in the Zionist movement As historian Edwin Black put it, "The Transfer Agreement tore the Jewish world apart, turning leader against leader, threatening rebellion and even assassination."Opposition came from the mainstream US leadership of the World Zionist Congress, in particular Abba Hillel Silver and American Jewish Congress president Rabbi Stephen Wise. Wise and other leaders of the Anti-Nazi boycott of 1933 argued against the agreement, narrowly failing to persuade the Nineteenth Zionist Congress in August 1935 to vote against it.


Even if Rabbi Wise did make some secret deal in the 1930s that should not mean the current Rabbi has no “right” to opine on “being useful idiots for the enemy”

Thanks for digging up these details about the Haavara Agreement. I've seen various claims about some sort of deal between Zionists and the Nazi German government, but these claims were short on names or other details that I could look up. Thanks also for your historical info about the controversy surrounding this deal.

This is the sort of thing that, without sufficient details and context, is all too easily oversimplified into a "conspiracy theory."


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04 Nov 2024, 7:38 am

I should have said my cousin is a strong zionist but she does fit in with what was being discussed by Tuft university professor about progressive zionist Jews feeling betrayed by fellow progressives whose causes they championed. I have posted a number of articles related to this subject. I am an outlier in not being surprised. Even my fellow “anti wokes” who did pick up years ago that the emphasis on oppressed and oppressor groups and purity tests is bad for Jews have been shocked at how fast it occurred and how widespread it became.

Depending on location “just” wearing a megan star necklace is not going to protect you.
Report Details Discrimination, Harassment and Stalking of Columbia University Jewish Students

Quote:
Jewish and Israeli students at Columbia University were subjected to “crushing discrimination,” harassment and violence during the last school year by pro-Palestinian demonstrators. They were chased out of dorm rooms, kept from participating in campus activities, spit on, and in some cases, asked to leave campus for their own safety.

Those were the findings of a 90-page report released by the university’s Task Force on Antisemitism that found the “larger social compact is broken” at the university and made recommendations going forward.

The report concluded that “the testimonies of hundreds of Jewish and Israeli students have made clear that the University community has not treated them with the standards of civility, respect, and fairness it promises to all its students.”

In response to the report, Brian Levine, the Lavine Family Executive Director at the Kraft Center for Jewish Student Life Columbia/Barnard Hillel, acknowledged “the report makes for difficult reading” but that “it is unfortunately not news to us.”

Among the horrific experiences outlined in the report was a student who placed a mezuzah outside her dorm room door, and after the Oct. 7 attacks on Israel by Hamas, found people banging on her door at all hours of the night demanding she explain Israel’s actions and forcing her to move from the dorm.

Easily identifiable observant students had been called terrible names such as “lovers of genocide” or “baby-killers.”

Others felt forced to hide their Jewish identity by covering kippahs, not wearing religious jewelry and not letting their peers know they are Jewish. Still others told of having necklaces ripped off their necks, being pinned against a wall while walking back to their dorms on Friday afternoons and when walking back from attending synagogue.

There were numerous instances of Jewish individuals walking past 116th Street in the Morningside Heights section of Manhattan where the university is located who were stalked and subjected to ethnic and hateful slurs such as “Go back to Poland.” Students reported finding jokes about Hitler on communal dormitory whiteboards. Other students described walking down hallways as “a painful daily routine.”

Jewish students simply walking on campus heard shouts of “We don’t want no Zionists here.”

The hate was also spewed on social media with many students reporting that Sidechat, an anonymous online platform accessible only to Columbia students, was “suffused with hatred toward Jews and Zionists” with such posts as, “All you Zionists out there? You are the modern day Hitler” or “If you support Israel, you are piece of filth not even worthy of being called human.”

The report cited the “unacceptable” exclusion of Jewish and Israeli students from groups because of their ties to Israel even when the groups’ mission had nothing to do with Israel and recommended several ways to address the “urgent” issue.


Pittsburgh Jewish Student Beaten Over Star of David Necklace

Jewish Yale student says pro-Palestinian protester assaulted her. Here's why she feels targeted.
Quote:
Jewish Yale University student said she was assaulted during pro-Palestinian protests on campus and now the university is investigating.

Sahar Tartak, editor-in-chief of the Yale Free Press, said she was assaulted Saturday night while covering demonstrations on the campus in New Haven, Connecticut.

Tartak believes she was targeted for wearing Jewish attire.

"I wear a Star of David necklace," she said. "One of them taunted me by waving a Palestinian flag in my face and jabbed me with it in the eye."


I could go on and on. Again this is location dependent. Some of this was going on before 10/7.

As far as Rabbi Hirsch goes since Jews can’t afford a schism instead of excluding antizionist Jews at least try and talk with them to see if there is common ground. His job description does involve trying to help all Jews not just the ones that he agrees with. While it is too much to ask people to give up incompatible core beliefs I don't see why something like a joint appearance to condemn an event both could agree is anti Jewish. While what I wrote the above is about Jews it is also applies to the “autism wars”. Unfortunately our politics is the exact opposite.

As far as the Havaara agreement you are welcome. In a similar manor that antisemites have been using the deadly Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty during the Six Day War as a cudgel, Anti Zionists have been using the Havaara Agreement as a cudgel for years.

Need I point out how easy it is to use the agreement to imply Jewish Conspiracy tropes? I imagine that is why this part of Jewish history was buried. Burying it has only fueled the conspiracy theories.

Speaking of buried history despite the misuse of the U.S.S. Liberty attack survivors, and the decedents of survivors and those killed have very legitimate grievance. I am conflicted about this. As an American I am angered about this and know remaining survivors have only have so much time left to receive proper recognition and reparations. On the other hand I would strongly suspect nefarious motivations if any serious inquiries were launched now.


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04 Nov 2024, 8:43 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Another very interesting finding you didn't quote was this one:

Quote:
Among other findings were that students of higher socioeconomic status, both Jewish and non-Jewish, were the strongest supporters of Israel.

I guess this is one of the reasons why our political establishment, including Democrats as well Republicans, is so relentlessly pro-Israel. People with money to spend on political campaigns, whether Jewish or non-Jewish, are more likely to be pro-Israel.

Also, a clarification to my previous post:

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Personal Note:
A cousin of mine of is a Gen Z trans woman active in trans causes. For carrying a pride flag with a Jewish star she was called a Nazi.

Alas, a Jewish star on a background of horizontal stripes, of whatever color(s), will remind most people of the Israeli flag, and some of Israel's recent behavior has indeed been rather Nazi-like.

Still I think it was wrong to call her a Nazi.

But I think it would not have been out of line to request that she not carry such a flag, and to propose alternatives. For example, hopefully there would be no objection to her wearing a Jewish star necklace. Or perhaps she could carry a rainbow flag with some other Jewish symbol superimposed on it, such as a menorah.

I was assuming that the context was a Pride march or some other organized event, where it would be reasonable for the organizers to have policies on what kind of flags are allowed, and/or for other participants to have opinions on what kinds of flags should be encouraged/discouraged.

There are other possible kinds of situations, e.g. encounters with random strangers on the subway, where it would NOT be appropriate for other people to tell her what to wear or carry, period.


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ASPartOfMe
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04 Nov 2024, 9:18 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:

Another very interesting finding you didn't quote was this one:

Quote:
Among other findings were that students of higher socioeconomic status, both Jewish and non-Jewish, were the strongest supporters of Israel.

I guess this is one of the reasons why our political establishment, including Democrats as well Republicans, is so relentlessly pro-Israel. People with money to spend on political campaigns, whether Jewish or non-Jewish, are more likely to be pro-Israel.

Also, a clarification to my previous post:

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Personal Note:
A cousin of mine of is a Gen Z trans woman active in trans causes. For carrying a pride flag with a Jewish star she was called a Nazi.

Alas, a Jewish star on a background of horizontal stripes, of whatever color(s), will remind most people of the Israeli flag, and some of Israel's recent behavior has indeed been rather Nazi-like.

Still I think it was wrong to call her a Nazi.

But I think it would not have been out of line to request that she not carry such a flag, and to propose alternatives. For example, hopefully there would be no objection to her wearing a Jewish star necklace. Or perhaps she could carry a rainbow flag with some other Jewish symbol superimposed on it, such as a menorah.

I was assuming that the context was a Pride march or some other organized event, where it would be reasonable for the organizers to have policies on what kind of flags are allowed, and/or for other participants to have opinions on what kinds of flags should be encouraged/discouraged.

There are other possible kinds of situations, e.g. encounters with random strangers on the subway, where it would NOT be appropriate for other people to tell her what to wear or carry, period.


I did not post interesting parts of the study because I thought they were not relevant to what I was trying to point out. I do agree the link between Jewish support of zionism and socioeconomic status is a previously unrecognized link that needs a lot more study.

As far as the Yale Free Press reporter is concerned unless she is doing Gonzo Journalism a la Hunter Thompson she violated the most basic rule of covering a story, do not become part of the story. While it is terrible that it is this way it is what happened to her is far from surprising.

I do not know the circumstances of where my cousin was called a Nazi.


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“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Mona Pereth
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04 Nov 2024, 10:31 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I should have said my cousin is a strong zionist but she does fit in with what was being discussed by Tuft university professor about progressive zionist Jews feeling betrayed by fellow progressives whose causes they championed. I have posted a number of articles related to this subject. I am an outlier in not being surprised. Even my fellow “anti wokes” who did pick up years ago that the emphasis on oppressed and oppressor groups and purity tests is bad for Jews have been shocked at how fast it occurred and how widespread it became.

As far as "oppressed and oppressor groups" are concerned, most leftists would say that Jews can be in either category depending on context. Most leftists would also say that it is wrong to pick on Jews merely for being Jewish, or for wearing Jewish religious symbols!

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Depending on location “just” wearing a megan star necklace is not going to protect you.
Report Details Discrimination, Harassment and Stalking of Columbia University Jewish Students
Quote:
Jewish and Israeli students at Columbia University were subjected to “crushing discrimination,” harassment and violence during the last school year by pro-Palestinian demonstrators. They were chased out of dorm rooms, kept from participating in campus activities, spit on, and in some cases, asked to leave campus for their own safety.

Those were the findings of a 90-page report released by the university’s Task Force on Antisemitism that found the “larger social compact is broken” at the university and made recommendations going forward.

The report concluded that “the testimonies of hundreds of Jewish and Israeli students have made clear that the University community has not treated them with the standards of civility, respect, and fairness it promises to all its students.”

In response to the report, Brian Levine, the Lavine Family Executive Director at the Kraft Center for Jewish Student Life Columbia/Barnard Hillel, acknowledged “the report makes for difficult reading” but that “it is unfortunately not news to us.”

Among the horrific experiences outlined in the report was a student who placed a mezuzah outside her dorm room door, and after the Oct. 7 attacks on Israel by Hamas, found people banging on her door at all hours of the night demanding she explain Israel’s actions and forcing her to move from the dorm.

Easily identifiable observant students had been called terrible names such as “lovers of genocide” or “baby-killers.”

Others felt forced to hide their Jewish identity by covering kippahs, not wearing religious jewelry and not letting their peers know they are Jewish. Still others told of having necklaces ripped off their necks, being pinned against a wall while walking back to their dorms on Friday afternoons and when walking back from attending synagogue.

There were numerous instances of Jewish individuals walking past 116th Street in the Morningside Heights section of Manhattan where the university is located who were stalked and subjected to ethnic and hateful slurs such as “Go back to Poland.” Students reported finding jokes about Hitler on communal dormitory whiteboards. Other students described walking down hallways as “a painful daily routine.”

All of this is obviously wrong. It is also counterproductive behavior for anti-Zionists, because all it accomplishes is to further convince a lot of Jews that they need Israel after all.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Quote:
Jewish students simply walking on campus heard shouts of “We don’t want no Zionists here.”

The hate was also spewed on social media with many students reporting that Sidechat, an anonymous online platform accessible only to Columbia students, was “suffused with hatred toward Jews and Zionists” with such posts as, “All you Zionists out there? You are the modern day Hitler” or “If you support Israel, you are piece of filth not even worthy of being called human.”

It might be reasonable to say "If you support Israel's war on Gaza, you are the modern day Hitler" -- but it needs to be acknowledged that not even all Zionists, much less all Jews, support Israel's conduct in its war on Gaza.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Quote:
The report cited the “unacceptable” exclusion of Jewish and Israeli students from groups because of their ties to Israel even when the groups’ mission had nothing to do with Israel and recommended several ways to address the “urgent” issue.


Pittsburgh Jewish Student Beaten Over Star of David Necklace

This kind of behavior is obviously unacceptable.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Jewish Yale student says pro-Palestinian protester assaulted her. Here's why she feels targeted.
Quote:
Jewish Yale University student said she was assaulted during pro-Palestinian protests on campus and now the university is investigating.

Sahar Tartak, editor-in-chief of the Yale Free Press, said she was assaulted Saturday night while covering demonstrations on the campus in New Haven, Connecticut.

Tartak believes she was targeted for wearing Jewish attire.

Is it possible she might have been targeted for being the editor-in-chief of the Yale Free Press? See: DEWEES: On the Yale Free Press, Yale News, Nov 16, 2023. I can certainly understand why someone from the Yale Free Press would be less than welcome at the demonstration.

Even so, of course, jabbing her in the eye is wrong and unwarranted:

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Quote:
"I wear a Star of David necklace," she said. "One of them taunted me by waving a Palestinian flag in my face and jabbed me with it in the eye."


ASPartOfMe wrote:
As far as the Havaara agreement you are welcome. In a similar manor that antisemites have been using the deadly Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty during the Six Day War as a cudgel, Anti Zionists have been using the Havaara Agreement as a cudgel for years.

Need I point out how easy it is to use the agreement to imply Jewish Conspiracy tropes? I imagine that is why this part of Jewish history was buried. Burying it has only fueled the conspiracy theories.

Indeed. That's why it's important to talk about it in context, including details such as the controversies among Zionists, as well as among Jews more generally.


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- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)