19 Feb 2024, 7:54 pm
cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Credibility in a court of law is not applicable here. In order to prove something like the paranormal, you need much more than eyewitness accounts. We have hard evidence that people commit specific crimes - that they have done so in the past. We do not have hard evidence that paranormal phenomena has ever truly occurred. It doesn’t matter if someone is the most intelligent and respected person on the planet. Without hard evidence, their experience doesn’t mean much when it comes to proving the paranormal.
I think you are conflating different things here. From my perspective
1. imaginary friend - a person creates a friend to keep them company whom they know is not real
2, god - a made up entity people are either forced to believe or voluntarily choose to believe
3. a hoax - a made up story created for drawing attention or for financial gain
4. a hallucination - perception is distorted for psychological reasons
5l Misidentification - somebody sees a bear and mistakes it for bigfoot, they see the planet venus or a satellite and mistake it for a UFO
What I am talking about is something quite different.
6. A person experiences a visual/auditory anomaly that doesn't fit into any of the above., The experience was real. In the case of UFOs they are acknowledged as real. And there are receipts (you are conveniently ignoring the government acknowledges this too).
What you are doing is jumping to the conclusion that item 6 is automatically explained by items 3-5. Clearly there are unknown anomalies out there. I am not saying they are alien, they could be man made, But to make blanket statements that interpret another person's personal experience seems to me designed to shut down simple investigation.
You seem to be moving the goalposts. This hasn’t been about seeing something and not being sure what it was. It’s been about assuming that something is paranormal with insufficient evidence/subjective experience.
People can have whatever experience they think they’ve had. If they interpret unknown external stimuli as aliens or something paranormal, they are still employing imagination because the fact is that they don’t know what it is they’ve experienced. It’s often something mundane. My friend had a neighbor who thought the metal fan on their roof was a UFO.
Real experiences and imagination often go hand-in-hand as I’ve previously stated in this thread. I’ve made no blanket statements because I said that various possibilities can contribute to or create experiences. Until sufficient evidence comes along, the most likely reasons for supposed paranormal phenomena are the ones I’ve already stated and are not dependent on factual reality apart from the misinterpretation factor. Refer back to my “imaginary” quote.
It’s perfectly rational for a person to say that they saw something and didn’t know what it was. It’s not rational to assume aliens.
Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 19 Feb 2024, 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
19 Feb 2024, 8:05 pm
19 Feb 2024, 8:07 pm
19 Feb 2024, 8:11 pm
19 Feb 2024, 8:13 pm
19 Feb 2024, 8:42 pm
cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
It’s perfectly rational for a person to say that they saw something and didn’t know what it was. It’s not rational to assume aliens.
Most people who have lived experience don't. But they keep an open mind to all possibilities till the experience can be explained. What doesn't help is stigmatising personal experience with labels such as "low levels of education", absurd and belief. Personal experience does not mean belief, people just want answers.
cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
The “lower levels of education” was referring to a previous comment. People who are less educated are more likely to have high levels of religiosity,
It is absurd to believe in something with insufficient evidence. Some people may think differently, but IMO belief in bigfood, Nessie, etc. is absurd.
It is absurd to believe in something with insufficient evidence. Some people may think differently, but IMO belief in bigfood, Nessie, etc. is absurd.
Yes belief is absurd, one must find explanation before they can become comfortable with what happened to them. Knowledge is the key, but without serious investigation they are left in the dark.
Not a single person has said that people shouldn’t investigate in this thread.
Once again, you seem to be moving the goalposts. I don’t have a problem with people experiencing something and not knowing what it was. My issue lies with assuming something is paranormal which is what this conversation was about. It wasn’t about investigating or about people having unknown experiences. It was about people having paranormal experiences. I have yet to see a compelling reason to believe that something was paranormal and won’t until it’s been proven objectively. There’s often a mundane reason for stuff although it might be more fun to think otherwise. If people have had all these paranormal experiences, there’d most likely be extraordinary evidence by this point.Sure, people can see metal fans or airplanes and not know what they are. The irrational belief lies in assuming it’s an alien spaceship or whatever. That’s what I meant by misinterpretation, and it does involve imagination. With less concrete experiences, I think the reasons I’ve already stated are most likely although it doesn’t mean that a person wouldn’t investigate. A sleep study could be part of the investigation depending on the nature of the experience(s). If no rational explanation can be discovered, it doesn’t mean that it was paranormal by default.
funeralxempire
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19 Feb 2024, 9:47 pm
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funeralxempire
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19 Feb 2024, 10:54 pm
funeralxempire
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19 Feb 2024, 10:58 pm
TwilightPrincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
If people have had all these paranormal experiences, there’d most likely be extraordinary evidence by this point.
Addressing this point for the umpteenth time - Having a paranormal experience is neither "Belief" nor is it necessarily "imaginary".
Paranormal experiences haven’t been proven. It seems that they are, by their very nature, rooted in belief and imagination. As with my stance on fairies, my position on paranormal activity is disbelief until the evidence proves that I am wrong. I can’t prove that there aren’t fairies, but it appears so unlikely that I simply say that I don’t believe in them. My position on God is similar, so I’m an atheist. I’m not saying people aren’t having experiences. I just don’t believe they are paranormal. For the umpteenth time, I’ve not been presented with extraordinary evidence to believe in anything paranormal or supernatural.
But, I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a lady who knows another guy who knows a lady who's cousin knows someone who's dog was being gangstalked by the fae.
Are you calling that dog a liar?
19 Feb 2024, 10:59 pm
I don’t know… That IS pretty overwhelming evidence. How could I not believe?
I think I’ve finally changed my stance on this stuff. 
19 Feb 2024, 11:09 pm
19 Feb 2024, 11:11 pm
19 Feb 2024, 11:13 pm
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