Being nice

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Generalisations about women posted by men in the women's forum are very likely to cause animosity, so stop digging. "You People" accusations also add fuel to the fire. Moderators are tired of the derailments that tend to happen here and the crossfire that ensues.

I didn't generalize, I related specific experiences that I'd had in a profession, and people twisted them around to create the impression that I said things I had not. Then I was accused of trying to psychologically manipulate someone simply because I was trying to correct said misrepresentations of what I'd said, and now a moderator is here rapping my knuckles? I've broken no rules here, my post was on topic and I merely replied to the replies to it. Perhaps you should get another mod involved who doesn't have such an appearance of bias.

You people

Oh, for Heaven's Sake. How many times to I have to quote you? Read your own words. Do you not know what generalize means?

What people are those?

Thread referred to the modteam. Accusing me (personal attack) won't direct attention away from the ongoing issue of derailment that has affected this forum for much longer than I have been a moderator.

...I've seen punches thrown over "stolen" orders, but that was over one guy taking money from another, not taking offense from the mere fact that the job is overtly competitive.

I don't want to draw any broad conclusions, but I think it's interesting that most of the women I worked with did not do very well at all when the competition was out in the open and strongly meritocratic (if you want to make more money as a driver, all you need to do is be quicker than everyone else, and you can't fake that), and would frequently cry or bitterly complain about how everyone must hate them, without ever seeming to notice that they were being treated exactly the same as everyone else.

Since a number of people seem to be having problems with it though, I'm going to change out 'meritocracy' for 'no BS', to give a better sense of what I mean. Culinary work is one of the few places where you can't really play office politics, either you can do the work or you can't, and it's really obvious really quickly, whether it's running deliveries or working the line during busy services, and that's all I meant, a job where you have to put up or shut up.

I saw a weird version of this when I was working in the male dominated delivery world, where everyone is in competition with each other to take the most orders, but certain principles of fairness and efficiency still had to be observed to keep everything going smoothly. What was odd to me was that when we did have female drivers, they almost invariably took the competitive aspect of the job very personally, and would think that their co-workers were out to get them specifically out of malice, rather than that their co-workers were simply trying to maximize their own earnings by working aggressively. To be sure, the guys in that industry could be awful, I've seen punches thrown over "stolen" orders, but that was over one guy taking money from another, not taking offense from the mere fact that the job is overtly competitive. I don't want to draw any broad conclusions, but I think it's interesting that most of the women I worked with did not do very well at all when the competition was out in the open and strongly meritocratic (if you want to make more money as a driver, all you need to do is be quicker than everyone else, and you can't fake that), and would frequently cry or bitterly complain about how everyone must hate them, without ever seeming to notice that they were being treated exactly the same as everyone else. I have to wonder if in a different environment that might have manifested as the type of catty sniping that the OP mentions, just because it was so different from the way the men seemed to react to the pressures of the job.

The environment you describe would seem to evoke passionate responses in both genders. Men throwing punches. Women feeling singled out and wronged. Meritocracy was distinctly singled out as something that challenges women in your post. Switching it to "no BS" seems to marginalize the female response to the environment.

The environment you describe would seem to evoke passionate responses in both genders. Men throwing punches. Women feeling singled out and wronged.

Meritocracy was distinctly singled out as something that challenges women in your post. Switching it to "no BS" seems to marginalize the female response to the environment.

Moreover violence is totally unacceptable in the workplace, that's a sign of a very toxic work environment, not really what I'd call a "meritocracy" to begin with.

Why are comments always taken in the worst possible way? Where is the balance?

Re-reading your OP, it's like you're psychic!