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Misslizard
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05 Nov 2021, 11:30 am

Axeman wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Your family has been squatters for generations axeman.
No ones asking you to hand over the land, just acknowledge that your ancestors stole it.
The pilgrims were starving their whites asses off til the locals helped them.
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/nativevoices/timeline/200.html


Mabye you need some diversity and sensitivity training. My ancestors didn't come on the Mayflower btw. They came over from Ireland in the 1840s to a US that didn't want them and saw them as a threat to their jobs and security. They faced discrimination and etc.

It’s still not their land.
And by the way I’m over a quarter Irish (27%)and also Scotch- Irish and several others.The Catholic Irish in the South did jobs no one would send a slave to do.If a slave died you lost money ,but if the Irish died it didn’t cost a penny.
Then some of my English bloodline landed shortly after the Mayflower and started trouble right off the bat.
King Phillips War.
I’m sorry they did that.


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Axeman
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05 Nov 2021, 11:51 am

Misslizard wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Your family has been squatters for generations axeman.
No ones asking you to hand over the land, just acknowledge that your ancestors stole it.
The pilgrims were starving their whites asses off til the locals helped them.
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/nativevoices/timeline/200.html


Mabye you need some diversity and sensitivity training. My ancestors didn't come on the Mayflower btw. They came over from Ireland in the 1840s to a US that didn't want them and saw them as a threat to their jobs and security. They faced discrimination and etc.

It’s still not their land.
And by the way I’m over a quarter Irish (27%)and also Scotch- Irish and several others.The Catholic Irish in the South did jobs no one would send a slave to do.If a slave died you lost money ,but if the Irish died it didn’t cost a penny.
Then some of my English bloodline landed shortly after the Mayflower and started trouble right off the bat.
King Phillips War.
I’m sorry they did that.


Yes it is my land. Well technically not, but not in the sense you mean. I legally bought it under the law of this land which is that of the United States. Now all of the land here is in reality the property of the US government. That's the meaning of Eminent Domain. There is no tribe of so called natives who have recognized legal authority over said land.

Wether you feel guilty over stuff others did and you had no control over is on you but I think you shouldn't.



Axeman
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05 Nov 2021, 12:00 pm

Interesting fact. People who can trace their family directly back to those who stepped off the Mayflower make up ten percent of the current US population. The English of that time had big families.



Misslizard
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05 Nov 2021, 12:20 pm

Axeman wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Your family has been squatters for generations axeman.
No ones asking you to hand over the land, just acknowledge that your ancestors stole it.
The pilgrims were starving their whites asses off til the locals helped them.
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/nativevoices/timeline/200.html


Mabye you need some diversity and sensitivity training. My ancestors didn't come on the Mayflower btw. They came over from Ireland in the 1840s to a US that didn't want them and saw them as a threat to their jobs and security. They faced discrimination and etc.

It’s still not their land.
And by the way I’m over a quarter Irish (27%)and also Scotch- Irish and several others.The Catholic Irish in the South did jobs no one would send a slave to do.If a slave died you lost money ,but if the Irish died it didn’t cost a penny.
Then some of my English bloodline landed shortly after the Mayflower and started trouble right off the bat.
King Phillips War.
I’m sorry they did that.


Yes it is my land. Well technically not, but not in the sense you mean. I legally bought it under the law of this land which is that of the United States. Now all of the land here is in reality the property of the US government. That's the meaning of Eminent Domain. There is no tribe of so called natives who have recognized legal authority over said land.

Wether you feel guilty over stuff others did and you had no control over is on you but I think you shouldn't.

I don’t feel responsible, but I think we should acknowledge that our ancestors did some nasty stuff to the local people.
Not sweep it under the rug.
People that tried to help them by showing them how to forage for local foods , hunt game, medicinal herbs, what crops to grow etc..
They could have let them starve.
People around here don’t like Eminent Domain.We understand land theft.
The Corp of Engineers seized land to flood and make lakes ,Park Service and National Forest grabbed their share.I agree some of it needed to be preserved but they turned old people out of their homes.It’s small potatoes to what happened to the original inhabitants but still sucked for the people involved.
They dug up one of my great-grand father’s grave when they moved the cemetery to make a lake.The little town is under water now, Oasis, MO.


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Axeman
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05 Nov 2021, 1:03 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Your family has been squatters for generations axeman.
No ones asking you to hand over the land, just acknowledge that your ancestors stole it.
The pilgrims were starving their whites asses off til the locals helped them.
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/nativevoices/timeline/200.html


Mabye you need some diversity and sensitivity training. My ancestors didn't come on the Mayflower btw. They came over from Ireland in the 1840s to a US that didn't want them and saw them as a threat to their jobs and security. They faced discrimination and etc.

It’s still not their land.
And by the way I’m over a quarter Irish (27%)and also Scotch- Irish and several others.The Catholic Irish in the South did jobs no one would send a slave to do.If a slave died you lost money ,but if the Irish died it didn’t cost a penny.
Then some of my English bloodline landed shortly after the Mayflower and started trouble right off the bat.
King Phillips War.
I’m sorry they did that.


Yes it is my land. Well technically not, but not in the sense you mean. I legally bought it under the law of this land which is that of the United States. Now all of the land here is in reality the property of the US government. That's the meaning of Eminent Domain. There is no tribe of so called natives who have recognized legal authority over said land.

Wether you feel guilty over stuff others did and you had no control over is on you but I think you shouldn't.

I don’t feel responsible, but I think we should acknowledge that our ancestors did some nasty stuff to the local people.
Not sweep it under the rug.
People that tried to help them by showing them how to forage for local foods , hunt game, medicinal herbs, what crops to grow etc..
They could have let them starve.
People around here don’t like Eminent Domain.We understand land theft.
The Corp of Engineers seized land to flood and make lakes ,Park Service and National Forest grabbed their share.I agree some of it needed to be preserved but they turned old people out of their homes.It’s small potatoes to what happened to the original inhabitants but still sucked for the people involved.
They dug up one of my great-grand father’s grave when they moved the cemetery to make a lake.The little town is under water now, Oasis, MO.


The situation in Plymouth was more complex than what's presented in the Charlie Brown Thanksgiving Special. The Indians had political reasons for helping the Puritans. It wasn't out of altruism. As for the first Thanksgiving, it's mostly a national myth. The modern holiday was started by President Lincoln because he needed a national myth to mend a broken county.



Misslizard
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05 Nov 2021, 1:18 pm

Sure it’s a myth.
Here’s the real story.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... m.amp.html


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Axeman
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05 Nov 2021, 4:28 pm

Here is why the Mayflower population stat is amazing. 102 people got off the Mayflower. Today they have 35 million descendants.



techstepgenr8tion
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05 Nov 2021, 4:56 pm

Assuming 50 women and 16 generations that's an average of 2.32 surviving children per generation. It's a bit high by current first-world standards, healthy perhaps by past infant mortality considering that might have been as high as 50%, but if anything it's just really interesting to see that normal family sizes over 16 generations can lead to that.

Elon and Jeff better get cracking on those Moon and Mars habitation plans!


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Axeman
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05 Nov 2021, 5:16 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Assuming 50 women and 16 generations that's an average of 2.32 surviving children per generation. It's a bit high by current first-world standards, healthy perhaps by past infant mortality considering that might have been as high as 50%, but if anything it's just really interesting to see that normal family sizes over 16 generations can lead to that.

Elon and Jeff better get cracking on those Moon and Mars habitation plans!


English families of that time were extremely fecund. 20+ children wasn't unusual.



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05 Nov 2021, 5:41 pm

Axeman wrote:
English families of that time were extremely fecund. 20+ children wasn't unusual.

My dad's brothers and sisters were born in the 1920's and several of them had more than ten kids. Seems like incentives changed significantly, both with improved health care and the costs of actually raising families. There is one particularly fiery non-denominational pastor I know of in the area who has 14 children (to match my aunt's 14 kids) but that seems to be more of a religious thing.

My take - if they don't want Ed Dutton / Jolly Heretic's predictions of the next century to be true they're going to have to make sure that everyone has as much skin in the game, ie. you can't have low birth rates only be a middle and upper class thing and expect democracy to continue on it's merry way.


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Misslizard
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05 Nov 2021, 6:09 pm

Axeman wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Assuming 50 women and 16 generations that's an average of 2.32 surviving children per generation. It's a bit high by current first-world standards, healthy perhaps by past infant mortality considering that might have been as high as 50%, but if anything it's just really interesting to see that normal family sizes over 16 generations can lead to that.

Elon and Jeff better get cracking on those Moon and Mars habitation plans!


English families of that time were extremely fecund. 20+ children wasn't unusual.

Sometimes they’d burn thru two or three wives.


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Axeman
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05 Nov 2021, 8:26 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Axeman wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Assuming 50 women and 16 generations that's an average of 2.32 surviving children per generation. It's a bit high by current first-world standards, healthy perhaps by past infant mortality considering that might have been as high as 50%, but if anything it's just really interesting to see that normal family sizes over 16 generations can lead to that.

Elon and Jeff better get cracking on those Moon and Mars habitation plans!


English families of that time were extremely fecund. 20+ children wasn't unusual.

Sometimes they’d burn thru two or three wives.


Yep. Childbirth was the most common cause of death of women of childbearing age.



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06 Nov 2021, 1:32 pm

This was interesting.

http://mayflowerhistory.com/famous-descendants

Seems there are many famous Mayflower descendants, including Presidents Bush, President Grant, Clint Eastwood, Christopher Lloyd, Sara Palin, and Alan Shepard.



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06 Nov 2021, 1:50 pm

I struggled to recall the last book i read it was months and months ago....I think it was;

:twisted: What are Perversions - Sexuality, Ethics, Psychoanalysis by Sergio Benvenuto :evil: :oops:

I recommend it, if you have sexual matters on the brain. Or are just horny. Otherwise you might find it not very interesting.


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06 Nov 2021, 1:53 pm

Axeman wrote:
This was interesting.

http://mayflowerhistory.com/famous-descendants

Seems there are many famous Mayflower descendants, including Presidents Bush, President Grant, Clint Eastwood, Christopher Lloyd, Sara Palin, and Alan Shepard.


Alec Baldwin too.

Some (like FDR, and Dick Van Dyke) have four or five different Mayflower ancestors through differing lineages.
Despite both having Dutch names they have ancestors among the English mayflower settlers.



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06 Nov 2021, 2:15 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Axeman wrote:
This was interesting.

http://mayflowerhistory.com/famous-descendants

Seems there are many famous Mayflower descendants, including Presidents Bush, President Grant, Clint Eastwood, Christopher Lloyd, Sara Palin, and Alan Shepard.


Alec Baldwin too.

Some (like FDR, and Dick Van Dyke) have four or five different Mayflower ancestors through differing lineages.
Despite both having Dutch names they have ancestors among the English mayflower settlers.


Also Marlyin Monroe. What would her Puritan ancestors have thought of her?