punishment in school

Post Reply New Topic

Hello,
My nine yr old son has asp and is always getting put on report or having 2 do detentions (which he seems 2 enjoy) usually for back chatting teachers or hiding under the school tables and refusing 2 work in class.How will detentions and being put on report affect my son in his own little world?.I no this may sound silly but i never no what i say or any one else says to my son actually sinks in.I never seem able to enter his private little world.I am just starting to learn about Aspergers and its frustrating at times . I want to help my son the best way i can but some times i wonder if what i do is really helping at all

It's great that you're making the effort to try to understand your son. I know this may sound presumptuous but it sounds like you're being too hard on yourself. The fact that you've made the effort to come to WrongPlanet for more information shows you care about him. Just keep trying and you'll eventually start understanding him. I guarantee it.

Thanks for yr reply, i'm just glad i stumbbled across wp

Fox- I know exactly what you mean about wondering if your AS son understands what you say. I have an AS son who is 12. We get along real good and I've always felt like I've understood him when others have not. My husband and I have struggled on issues like discipline, education, and supervised play times. We realized early on that our traditional forms of discipline did not work for our son because he usually did not understand what he did wrong, just that we wouldn't allow him to do it. (I remember being punished alot when I was young and had no clue as to why. This only made me withdraw to my safe "zone" even more) When our son was very young he was also very compliant (thank God); no tantrums or self-destructive behavior. Now that he is going through puberty, this has begun to change. He's more resistant, mouthy and negative. One of the best forms of discipline is to take away video time and and chores. He absolutely must be kept busy. Boredom is his worst enemy. It gives him time to obsess on his disappointments. If he's anything like mine, your son should not be put in detention, ever! Maybe you could come up with an "at home" alternative. Talk to your school about this. If the punishment makes no impact, than it's a waste of time and effort and may even be damaging to your son.

Would your son benefit from homeschooling? I homeschooled ours from K-4th grade and very glad I did. Contrary to popular belief, not all AS kids are geniuses. Because of his lack of understanding and innatentiveness, we did alot of game-based learning. For science, we did experiments (lots of them) for every concept taught. I think that he would be way behind if he'd have started out in regular school. Now, he is doing okay in our public school but academically struggling. The first year he was enrolled, the teachers, counselor, autism consultant, principal and I kept close watch and met regularly to discuss problems and monitor growth. But this year, I feel like we're not doing enough to stimulate his intellect. I know that my son isn't unintelligent but he lacks the ability to understand new concepts. It's just so hard to get it in there! He's usually thinking about his favorite obsessions; cars, candy, and soda pop! If I could, I would structure his entire curriculum on these three things!!

Have you ever looked into Applied Behavior Analysis? I don't know much about it but have read that it really helps some kids with Autism. Although, it seems like it should be used for those who are more severely affected.

If your son isn't growing and thriving in his current environment then research and try something different. This can be hard when you work full-time but I've learned to enlist the help of other people who care about my son. Don't be afraid to ask for help. One really good resource is called the Oasis Guide to Asperger's Syndrome. It's a great book.

Thanks Bland
You've given me a lot 2 think about. Unfortunatly i am not that close with my son (yet). I feel so horrible when i say it but when i was pregnant i never bonded & never looked forward 2 my son's birth un like my daughters.

I new there was something different about my little lad even before birth. any way once he was born i fell in love with him & every thing was great till he was about 2 or 3 yrs when he started getting destructive. The destructiveness got worse over the yrs, J would take cupboards 2 bits, unscrew light bulbs and plug sockets, make holes in his bedroom walls, set fire to things to name but a few things. J has struggled academically all the way through school.My parents just kept telling me he's a normall little boy who will grow out of it. I learned to deal with J's behavior but ended up resenting him for a while, he was destroying our house & every one just kept saying he'll grow out of it, i was at my wits end.

My self & my husband pushed & pushed to get help from doctors and our local school, eventually J was dignosed early last yr with as.Hearing about J's diagnosis was a relief , just noing that his behavior was'nt just J being a bad boy.

I get along With J alot better now & i enjoy J's company now. J's behavior at school only really started last September after his eldest sister moved 2 senior school, J misses having her around at school lots. J has no social skills at all & when he's not in the same room as his family (which is not very often) he is in his room playing with his macanno ( j is very good at building things), J's only friend is his younger sister altho he does make attempts to socialize, J is often laught at or ignorred & sometimes bullied.

When we r having a bad behavior day at home i tend to make J sit on the naughty boys step till he calms down or take his mecanno away if he really bad, nothing else works, you can't do this at school so i think his detentions are a waste of time especiallyas J like's the extra 1 -1 attention with his teachers. I don't really see how they can punish J.

I will look into the applied behavior analysis, who no's where it may lead & i totally agree if J is not busy he is destructive.

Thanks again
Fox 1028

Fox, I feel for you. My son would always get into things, too, but he did this from about 2-5 years old and never really destroyed things, just explored and messed up everything! Now he just messes up my husbands workshop and leaves tools everywhere. This makes my husband angry but I tell him to get our son to help him clean it on the weekends and spend some time teaching him something. My son never really makes anything useful, just nails together a lot of boards; he did make a working pinball machine, once but it was quite crude. We were proud of him for that! It seems like he's wasting time and materials, but I suspect he's learning more than we know and it keeps him busy. He seems to have delayed skills. For instance, he did not have an interest in drawing or coloring until he was about 9. His original drawings were very much on a kindergarten level. But by 11, his pictures were really cool geometric designs, very brightly colored; much like modern art. I think they could sell in the local art shop if only he didn't insist on using notebook paper to draw on. I wish that I could organize a coalition of parents who would do a different activity with our AS kids every day after school and even on the weekends. Everyone is so busy and overwhelmed with just the daily living! I do have my son in Boy Scouts, though, and he loves that. There's also church clubs but many times there doing too much memorization and seat work (work sheets or listening to stories). He's bored with it. Keep trying to introduce new things. Some things I've found sucessful are video games (of course), spirograph, erector sets, chemistry lab (for kids), telescope, binoculars and bird watching book, drums, model cars or planes, etc. Inevitably, though, the newness wears off and we're back to square one!

Hello again bland
The problem we have with J is that he finds the odd tool or the odd lighter when he walks to & back from school. J will take the blade from a pencil sharpener and use it as a tool, he slashed his mattress on his bed last yr and hid things in slash's. J will break pens & pencils or any thing plastic to get a sharp edge to make holes in walls or in wood work ( he is very bright that way).Last yr we had to stop J from playing in his sisters bedrooms because he lit a fire under my daughter's bed with her on top of the bed. Now J dos'nt have a bedroom door on or have a wardrobe, his bed legs have been cut off so he can't climb or hide things under his bed.J is very sneaky and will slip things into his pocket with out us seeing like my husband stanley knife we found the blades hiding in between his radiater. Luckily we hav'nt had a bad out burst since about november last yr.
J go's 2 a sports club once a week which is run by our local disability association, J loves this as there is such a range of people with disbilitys, i.e arm's & legs missing, ADD e.t.c, J feels quite at home at the club & is progressing well in badminton.I also bake with the kids of a weekend, again he loves this as well as when we raid our art & craft box's, my husband has a playstation ,J loves 2 watch but is not over keen on playing on it, he prefer's my pc.
Being a pet minder, i work with a range of different pets and J and my other kids all have their favorite pet which they enjoy helping me to look after ( we have a household of pets of our own, J is not intrested in our lol) .
School holidays i take the kids to work with me on some days ( while dad is at work),they all seem 2 enjoy this.
We have a large garden and every yr the kids all plant their own salad crops and sunflowers, then they get to pick the crops ( when i say crop it's tubs of lettuce or carrots e.t.c), they choose which salad item they want to grow and then have 2 look after them their selves, it's always a race to see who's crops grow the fastest. I have pics of J holding some of his massive lettuce which have been grown from seed .
I spend time with each of the kids on there own some time during the week, we will go to the beach or walk our own dogs or on special occasion we will go for a burger, i think this important not just for each child but for me as well so i can consentrate that 1/2 or 1 hr just on that child, mainly just catching up on gossip or what ever.
It is really hard to fit every thing some times & if i get really stressed out i usally nip down the beach for a walk while my husband is at home or i lock my self away with my cross stitch 4 an hr.

Thanks for yr support, its been a big help noing i'm not on my own and that there r people i can talk to other than my family

We went through a similar experience with our local school - they would just toss him into detention and insist on punishing him for any little infraction. It was really just the power of adults being able to bully a child with a disability. I don't know if they were unwilling or unable to deal with it but no matter what we said, they just kept making it worse. It was actually to the point where I'd tell them not to do something and they would do it then call to complain he was raging again.

We practice talk with our 9-y-o, I'll tell him something and ask him to repeat it. I'll tap him on the shoulder or gently take his chin and ask him to look at me when I'm speaking to make sure he's listening, but in reality, I think he almost hears better when it doesn't appear he's listening. It's like his mind can't focus on just one thing at a time - he needs two things going on and can follow both.

As far as destructive behavior, you really need to teach him consequences of his own actions. It drove me crazy for the longest time that he would interpret everything literally - he couldn't make any kind of generalizations (well, now we know that's the Aspie part of him). So, we are now extremely literal in some of our explanations, sometimes even graphic if necessary to get the point across about danger.

Punishing for the sake of punishment just teaches the child that it's okay to hit/spank and react physically. Detentions are pointless since once the rage/tantrum/meltdown is over, it's over - detentions only give these kids time to think about what bad kids they are and it's just another form of bullying, IMO.

Bland - thanks for the note about the coloring. My boy still doesn't color/draw much. When we were renting, we always had the cleanest walls in the complex. He still has trouble writing and holding a pencil, but we're trying to work around it.

Hello three2camp
I agree about the detentions being pointless, J was on lunch time detention yesterday and after school detention 2day. When j came home from school i asked how the detention went and j simply said fine i enjoyed it then went 2 get changed. I have 2 go & see his teacher again 2morrow this time j had stolen a stop watch and a calculator from his teacher 2day. I asked J why he stole the items and he said because he wanted 2, J hate's eye contact (even with me), so when we talk i always get j 2 look at me. as far as school go's i don't see any form of punishment that would work with J.
After j set fire under his sisters bed i took him in the front garden & set fire to a tiny heap of news paper in the hope that it may scare J with how quick the paper burned, but i think i could have made things worse (saying this he has'nt set fire since). We got a local police man to round the house and talk about smoking ( which J has also tryed) & stealing. None of it made any difference. we have tried grounding, taking things away from him, the naughty boy step ( which usually works), smacking, screaming, no having tea at grandparents ( we rarely watch t.v, so can't use that one), even playing with my other kids with the living room door shut & j sat on the naughty boy step , J hate's to be ignored which is why the step works ( i think).

Even tho i am in close contact with the school ( what ever j does wrong i let them no at school also how i dealt with it at he time), i don't feel i get the support i some times need, they r more intrested in stopping J's disruptivness in class and getting j 2 do his class work which is fine but i think kids learn more through play & hand's on work. J still loves his cardboard box's, He comes up with alsorts of use's 4 then, from pretend carage's & house to basic storage toy box's.

Did you read the post about the community service? A parent here had the child work around the house so many hours to contribute to his home community as re-payment for something. Perhaps J could sweep the floor or something to re-pay the theft?

Our school situation deteriorated to the point where we now homeschool and one thing I've done is very similar to that. When we just couldn't get on task and stay on task yesterday, he had to help me with my jobs so he was washing dishes and doing other chores that aren't normally part of his duties. It kept his hands and mind busy (well, after a rather long time-out) and we were then both able to talk.

I wish I would have known about what I call visual noise - I only just figured it out. There's a tip in this one book about creating a cardboard study carrel of sorts - three sides to set on the desk in front of the student to help the student re-focus. Schools here in the US are very visual and if he could have tuned it out, perhaps he could have done better?

Fox-it sounds like you're doing alot of things right. I suspect your son will move on from the things like cutting and setting fires. My son really had a fixation on fire and wanted to burn things but he didn't do it behind our back. We gave him the job of burning the trash and he was very responsible about it. He also liked to cut and scratch things (like wood trim) so I let him make the salads and we bought him a carving set (very sharp!) and a wood burning kit. Even though he appears shaky, he has never cut himself. He has since outgrown the preoccupation with fire, thank goodness! I hope the best for our kids. I wish I could do more for mine. I'm finally learning to find others to pick up the slack. I am going to school to get my teaching degree and I hope to teach special ed. I really miss homeschooling.

Hello again

I 've just read about this community service in the home, sounds like a good idea, wonder if this would work in school as well .
when i went 2 J's school about his stealing from them , the teachers just thanked me 4 bringing the items back & nothing more was said, while i was there i bumped into J's special ed teacher & told her what a waste of time the detentions were, i was shocked 2 hear that the teacher also agreed but that detentions r school policy & have to be followed, also the special ed teacher admitted there running out fo ideas with J,it's as if J dos'nt understand what wre saying (teachers), J dos'nt give the teachers any clues as 2 what he is thinking.

I'm thinking if the teachers don't no what 2 do with J how the heck do they think we cope at home . The home schooling is starting to appeal 2 me , i would'nt have a clue where 2 start. I work 4 my self, i'm at home 4 a few hrs then have 2 work 4 an hr then back home, i could may be arrange my work differently so i'm at home for 3 or 4 hrs in which J could work on school work then J would have 2 come work with me .

in the school i work at, we very often give students community service....the only way it works, though, is if the supervising staff don't give the student too much attention while they're doing it .
( some students wnat the extra attention)...some examples of community service we have given are: cleaning the grounds ( litter), washing the cafeteria tables, watering the plants, washing the windows. in order for this system to work, you need to have staff who are willing to do whatever it takes to support the students....hope this helps

Thanks ster
I've started a tips 4 the teachers list where i put all the advice from u guys (forums) and then i take it into school And discuss it with the teachers. I think the community service would be possible in J's school (they have enough teachers), i will talk 2 the teachers on Monday, i'm going 2 try it at home next time we have a bad day. I'll keep u posted.

Fox1028- At the school where my son attends, they can bend the rules for him a lot as long as he qualifies for "special services". We have a meeting with the teachers, school principal, counselor, special ed. director, and autism consultant and write our resolutions in an Individualized Educational Plan" (IEP). This avoids the mess of having to strictly follow school policy.
On another note, homeschooling is very efficient and takes much less time than traditional, classroom instruction. There are computer programs that are pretty much student directed, and other programs that are very teacher directed. There are also programs where the "distance school" keeps records for you. It is important to honestly ask yourself if you are up to task. Also remember that if it doesn't work for you, you can always place him back in school. Most families I know who have homeschooled, even for one year, wouldn't trade it for anything. I think it helped my son until he was mature enough and coped well enough with his differences to sucessfully attend institutional school.

Hello again bland
J has an IEP and i meet with J's speacial Ed teacher ( J dos'nt have a counselor), to discuss the IEP every 6month's and i meet with a phycologist avery 6 month's as well.
J rarely meet's his IEP targets.
Because J had a bad wk at school last wk, i got extra home work 4 him to do on Saturday, while my other kids were having fun ( as a punishment), J was made 2 sit at his table in the hall facing a corner & only allowed to look at his work or the walls, J worked through his work with out any moaning or bad behavior, he was brilliant. J worked 4 about 4 hrs with a few stops 4 drinks & his work was really good considering it was J's worst subject ( math's). I was shocked. as a reward 4 working better than expected ,J made his own Pizza 4 tea which he absolutely loved. J is on a promise this wk if he behave's at school he can help me make tea.
I asked J what he thought about his punishment and about doing school work at his corner, J felt he was punished because he was'nt allowed 2 join in with his sisters but he also liked working at home because there was'nt the noise like there is at school & he was able 2 concentrate on his wrk.

I was talking with my husband about home schooling J in the afternoons, this way J would still get the interaction with the other kids at school in the mornings and would still be used to school if home schooling did'nt work.J would have the best of both worlds then. I'm going to contact my local education department 2 c if i can legally do this before i make any final decissions.