Substitute speech - hardest aspect of the NT world?

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I've come to think lately that the most difficult aspect for me to understand and share with NTs is substitute speech. It's as confusing as white lies used to be for me. Example:

Me: Unfortunately, I have another event that same evening. Do you think if I come at 9 pm there'll still be people at the party?
She: "We've advanced the start time, so maybe you could come at 4:00, before your evening event? That way you'd sure find people."
Me:

If you're less Autistic than me, can you please explain whether her reply means YES or NO?

That took a minute for me but I think she meant no-so come earlier if you want to see people.

wish NTs would use more forward responses ones more lucid and logical fo example Well to get to know people come at 4 00pm and then the evening events shall continue at the appointed time.
You have my sympathies to ate I get that to, people need to be more black and white, NTs not aspies as all aspies have met tell you what their status is with you

That's a weird reply to your question, but it's also a very goal-oriented/problem-solving answer. Couldn't be more aspie-compatible than that

You are asking this question because you want to go to another event, and only come to this one when there are people present.

They answer with a solution to that problem: Come way earlier and you will both be able to visit while there are people and visit the other event.

To be honest I think that was a typical NT non-answer because they really have NOT said yes or no.

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for clarification in situations like this. You have two options here with regards to getting the information you want:

If you know the 4pm time might work you could say:
"That might be possible, however I'm still curious if coming at 9pm would would work as well?"

Or if you know you can't come at 4pm you could say:
"No sorry that wouldn't be possible. Do you think if I come at 9 pm there'll still be people at the party?

That's precisely the issue. That if I ask a second time, that's when the NT rolls their eyes and start telling people I'm "difficult". So I suppose the NT doesn't like to say "no", so the NT gives a non-answer instead of the "no", and I should understand that the answer to my question is "no". Then again, the answer might be "yes" or "I don't know", but I'll never know, because asking for a second time is considered being a nudge, seeing as NTs grasp these things nonverbally and with no need for clarification...

^^ Wow, I believe I certainly require to use time to consider this discussion. As primarily as I was rather confused why this was a problem as you stated that you had an event but wished to see individuals so the lady gave an alternative. ^^ If I could not carry out the alternative I would simply ask again. ^^ However as you have said I sometimes realise that individuals become rather upset. ^^ I believe I am just now realising that I do not notice so many matters that take place as I have believed that I do understand.

^^ I must say that I believe I perahps started to use "non-answers" to many questions, as I am terrified of offending individuals. However, I believe that I must not follow a set pattern and this appears to confue many humans and make them angry a number of times.

They're telling you to come earlier. If they advanced the start time, that also implies they advanced the end time, and don't expect any more guests (including yourself) after 9:00.

Good observation; that hadn't occurred to me.

Also, I wouldn't worry about being "difficult", Greentea. They were the ones who didn't give a straight answer!

no idea.

I would require further clarification.
these are precisely the kinds of replies to questions that leave me with anxiety and confusion.

She didn't know the answer to your question (will there be people there after 9PM?) so instead she guessed at your intentions for asking the question and addressed her answer to that.

To break it down:

She has no idea whether or not there will be people there after 9PM, that's why she didn't answer "yes" or "no".

She wants to give you a more meaningful answer than "I don't know".

She guesses that your intention in asking was because you wanted to see people.

So she suggests a time when she is sure there will be people and that will not conflict with your other event.


The "I don't know" answer to your question was implied. I know that drives AS people bananas (well, I know now...after being on this forum for a bit). This will forever be a source of miscommunication between NT people and AS people because implied answers are fairly common in NT speech. (I've done it quite a bit myself.) She assumed you got the implied "I don't know the anwer to your question" embedded within her attempt to brainstorm a solution to your implied (she figured) reason for asking.

And here is the source of miscommunication between NT people and AS people. NT people don't need to be more black and white with other NT people. The need for spelling things out and leaving nothing to implications is not an NT need. NT people need to be more black and white when speaking with AS people but they (we) are in the habit of using implications because usually that doesn't cause problems. They (we) have to switch gears when talking to AS people but very few NT people are even aware of this need for black and white-ness. I did not become aware of it until my own daughter became fairly verbal and I realized after many miscommunications that she understood absolutely none of the things I said that weren't black and white even though her NT cousins did.

This disoriented me. I agree with you, it's unnecessarily confusing, why couldn't she say yes or no plainly?

I hate non-answers like those.

I think she assumed you wanted advice on when to attend if you wanted to see people. I think she also assumed that you would agree that attending from the beginning and then leaving early is a more optimal plan than attending at the very end (better selection of food, more people, etc). So she thought the fact that the start time was pushed to 4:00 rendered your original question irrelevant.

That's my interpretation of what she was probably thinking. NT's have a habit of making too many assumptions and then assuming that everyone will make the same assumptions as they do. She didn't consider the possibility that you'd still prefer to attend after rather than before your other event.

I wonder if there are cultural norms regarding this as well. Maybe showing up towards the end of a party is considered weird/unusual where you live. I don't think it's considered that unusual in the US though. Who knows?

I think that since you had asked her a question dealing with the 9 pm hour, her answer to you should have dealt also with the 9 pm hour, not the 4 pm hour. I think I can see at least five hours worth of confusion in her answer.

Respond to her claims by telling them the NT isn''t direct and intentionallyy deceiving you-and you ask for a clear answer that cannot be "misintrepreted".