Attorney Seeking Advice

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I am a criminal defense attorney (in the USA) a couple years out of law school with my own practice. I am bored out of my skull. It's all I can do to drag myself to work in the morning.

I was hoping that maybe there were some other Aspie attorneys on this forum who could give me some advice on how to get me interested in practicing law. After all, if we're not interested....

Anyway, new practice areas that other Aspie attorneys like or something like that would be welcome suggestions.

Thanks!

I know nothing about legal practice and less about what might spark a personal interest in you, but I can tell you the world could always use a good disability discrimination defender.

There are plenty of hired guns for companies who get sued for mistreating their handicapped employees, but I can tell you from personal experience, when someone with a disability needs somebody to go to bat for them, NOBODY wants to be bothered.

Just a thought.

Mariska Hagaritay!

Maybe you can specialize in special education law and advocate for those who need help getting services from the public school system. You could work with other advocacy groups and support groups in your area to get clients.

Were you bored in law school? Maybe you could teach. That will certainly keep you busy.

I realized in my last semester of law school that I no longer wanted to be an attorney.

I simply no longer saw any motive for me to want to do that with my life...after all I learned.

You have my sympathy. I didn't know of AS then, but in hindsight, I can understand why I had problems staying "focused" after so much work.

Once I realized I no longer wanted the career, I lost any motivation to pursue it.

You got farther than I....maybe you need a different field of law to work in? Criminal defense is rather depressing.

I'm here if you want to "talk."

There are soooo many careers that require a law background...Corporate Law, government service to name two, choose one!

The problem with criminal defense is, frankly, a whole huge majority of the people you will interact with are guilty scum. And you've got to take your logical solution of "You know what, we really need a long drop with a short rope," put it away safely in a box, and then try to get them off...

Here's a concept - Look at the military and the judge advocate general corps... I actually liked the military - No guessing about what was what...

Willard
Dharma Comedian

Too true, Willard.

Maybe get one of those do-gooder legal jobs where you help people(maybe with disabilities)?

A problem....there is NO MONEY in doing that.

The sad reality (and part of why I realized I didn't want to practice) is that the system is deliberately designed to protect the status quo. The only lawyers I know who live well from crusading for the downtrodden have already made their fortunes and are semi-retired. You need money coming in to pay the bills so you can do what you need to do. People being oppressed can't pay the bills.

I suppose once I realized the system protects itself and that I could not really change it, I lost interest. I knew the system had corruption, but law school showed me how bad and how deep it ran. Practicing law is rather costly. The bills must be paid. A woman I know who does discrimination cases told me, "I frequently am a prostitute so I can occasionally get to be the freedom fighter."

Even people like the head of the Southern Poverty Law Center are frauds. He didn't take cases until federal law imposed huge awards for violations, and the SPLC goes after high profile cases, not every minor case that walks in the door.

zer0netgain Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:19 pm Post subject:

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Bonny wrote:
Willard
Dharma Comedian

Quote:
I know nothing about legal practice and less about what might spark a personal interest in you, but I can tell you the world could always use a good disability discrimination defender.

There are plenty of hired guns for companies who get sued for mistreating their handicapped employees, but I can tell you from personal experience, when someone with a disability needs somebody to go to bat for them, NOBODY wants to be bothered.

Just a thought.

Yes, I know this, I am just adding my voice to the fact that Willard raised , that there needs to be voices advocating for those who can't.
I also understand how the 'status quo' looks after itself, changes the goals posts to make sure this is always achievable.! !!

I guess I'm gazing towards the horizon for human to human empathy and fair play.
Now , I have publicly exposed myself as socially naive.
But by whatever, I would rather crave for that then anything else that's sick out there on this planet of people that people give out to others.

Wasn't trying to bust chop....just stating what often is unsaid.

I know a lot of people who have no idea what is required to be given the "permission" to practice law who would say, "But the world needs more honest lawyers."

True, but you're better off pushing existing ones to change their ways than pushing impressionable and idealistic young people to indebt themselves for over $100K and then find out they are trapped in a system that will crush them if they make too many waves.

I wanted to make a difference in the world. I knew I could only do so much. I learned that I really couldn't do anything that mattered. Even the "giants" of reform were hypocrites in large part.

Once people are convinced that they only need to care about themselves, it's so difficult to get them to start caring about others... so even if we'd be better off trying to get current lawyers to change their ways, how on earth could we even get close to accomplishing that? If they're in it for the money, there's little incentive to venture into public defending or taking cases based on moral conviction, because well frankly they value the $$$ more than any social reform they could possibly accomplish.

Anyway, I don't really see being a lawyer practicing law as an effective instrument to long-term social reform. Indeed you'd be helping out the disadvantaged and downtrodden on a case-by-case basis, but that really in itself isn't going to change the culture that makes these more charitable legal cases happen in the first place. You might be able to participate in striking down some fairly nasty laws that discriminate against the disadvantaged, but it seems in some social respects nasty laws get enacted as fast as they can be stricken. If anything there needs to be a fundamental change in the group-think, and people's perception of things, and being a lawyer I think is too far downstream of all that to do much good.

zer0netgain, I'm sorry to see that you've become rather disillusioned about law. My AS sister also quit law school one semester before finishing, for largely the same reason: every other student was in it for the money and the self-glory, whereas she had been more interested in public defending and doing what she felt was morally right. She now does social work instead. No money in it, but she's happy and she was never in it for the money anyway.

Unfortunately, I think Zer0 is correct. In school they tell you that the law is designed to protect individuals from the immense power of the state. In truth, the law is only designed to look that way. The reality is that the law is designed to protect the state from the individual.

While being an advocate for the disabled would be nice, I would quickly go broke if I did that. Once you become an attorney it is easy to feel trapped. Some attorneys are in it for the money - most of us HAVE to be in it for the money. I've got student loans coming out of every place you can think of (and a few you don't want to think about).

I wish I didn't, but I HAVE to make money to climb out of the hole that modern education puts you in (don't get me started on that soap box).

I need a job or field of practice that allows me to actually think! Criminal defense is like working on a legal assembly line. There is little room for thought, creativity, or ideas. I know what you're thinking though, "But can't you come up with creative arguments to defend your clients rights?" I could if it would make any difference. In most states a criminal defendant's constitutional rights are given little more than lip service (and sometimes not even that) and any argument not written in crayon is lost on most of the judges I've been in front of since I got out of school.

I am in a deep rut and don't know how to get out. I hate what I do but most people I know don't understand why - even the other attorneys that I know. I don't know any other attorneys with AS where I live.... so here I am.

There aren't any easy solutions to this problem so I don't know what else you could do.

You can either:
1) continue to practice criminal defense for the expressed purpose of paying off debts, then do something else
or
2) stop practicing criminal defense immediately and do something else

The problem with #1 is that you will probably find that option very emotionally-draining and your mental health will be at risk.
The problem with #2 is that you will be saddled with debt for the foreseeable future, with probably no quick fixes. You may be able to find something you enjoy that pays reasonably well, so that in time you'll be able to pay the debt off, but it's also likely what you like won't pay as well. You don't need something with a huge salary to pay off debt, but you do need good financial planning to do it. It really depends on what you're willing to put up with, I guess. What I will say, though, is that once you have a plan, then all the funky uncertainties seem a lot less worrisome and scary.

Years ago when I was dating an attorney a professional magazine did a job satisfaction survey. Some 80% of attorneys, if I recall correctly, said that if they had known what it would be like, they would not have chosen the field.

So, no matter what you see around you, you are not alone.

But that doesn't make it any easier to solve.

You will have to do what anyone wanting a change of direction needs to do. Think about the work you do enjoy, the work you can put up with, and the work that you hope never to see again. Then consider work that would allow you a decent amount of what you enjoy with a reasonable amount of what you can put up with. Then consider the paths it would take to get you to that work, including time that might have to spent invested doing work you hope never to see again.

DO think outside of the box. My husband, as a trained engineer, figures the only jobs he can get are in engineering or in selling products to engineers. That really isn't true, but its an easy box to fall into. Doing something else is certainly difficult, but not impossible. You have acquired many, many transferrable skills that will be of value in other fields. I know more attorneys that no longer practice law than I do attorneys who still do. One of my favorite former attorneys is in real estate development. And on, and on. There are other paths, they just are not obvious and junctions tend to be well hidden. Just, well, don't focus on the brambles covering the paths; look at the shared spaces instead.

Good luck. It is a gift to have a career that inspires you; I hope life will help you find that gift.

DW, that is good advice and I thank you for it.

I find myself not really knowing what I want to do - I just know I don't want to do what I do now. It's a unique feeling for me.

I wanted to be a lawyer since I was 13. Like a typical Aspie, once I had an interest and a goal I was extremely focused on it and thought about little else (other than my two other obsessions - guitar and video games). Now, I find myself without a goal, without that intense and passionate interest. It's a bit like being lost in the woods; I have no idea where the path is, how to start to get there, or where it will take me if I do find it.

Sometimes I think I know what I'd like to do but I second guess myself - after all, I used to want this! Part of me wants to work for a big firm where I don't have to worry about clients paying, running the business, etc. Just give me an office. Let other attorneys come to me with legal questions that require lots of research that they are too bored, lazy, or stupid to look into themselves. Give me a computer and a whiteboard to jot down ideas and I think I could be happy doing that. Maybe....

I don't ever have to make partner or anything. Hell, I don't even need a secretary. I just don't want to go to court any more. I don't really want to see clients if I can help it. And I don't want to wear a tie!