aspergers a defense in crimes? :( (a bit graphic)

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I was just enjoying myself, reading my new horse book, and watching an episode of Dominic Dunne's power privilege and justice. Great episode. Name was Robert Durst. he killed some people and dismembered one man. He was also extremely rich, and was dressing like a woman to get the cops off of his trail. HE ALSo abused his wife, before murdering her.

at the beginning it mentioned he barked like a dog. I thought "lol. that sounds like some people on the spectrum I know." This guy was just a freaky dude I find my self making lots of comparisons to things on the spectrum lately.

Like i said, great episode. I thoroughly enjoyed it until I heard Dominic Dunne say "They Claimed that Durst had Aspergers Syndrome a form of Autism that explained his bizarre behavior."


I cant finish it. Why would they claim this when it obviously isn't true??? That's not fair, and just makes us look more weird.

This an was an evil controlling bad guy who hurt people.

why do lawyers do this?

If someone was on the severe end of the spectrum and they genuinely had a meltdown and assaulted someone who wouldn't stop overloading them, I'd understand, and yeah, that should be a defense.

Murdering and dismembering someone? No, no, no, no, no, no, and a great big NO.

I watch that show a lot. There is a line between psychopath, sociopath and a lot of disorders. These people who kill and don't care at all are not just aspergers alone, they must also have a condition that leaves them with no empathy at all. Aspergers alone won't do that. They should not say "he has aspergers, therefore it causes him to kill". He has aspergers plus a disorder of the conscience. I have aspergers and high blood pressure, if I have a stroke, no body would say "she has aspergers, so she had a stroke" the aspergers would not cause that, it's called comorbid condition, you can have more than one thing wrong. Patients who have asperger do not SHOW empathy in the acceptable ways for NT's so they assume that there is no conscience. We have feelings, it's the way we outwardly show them that makes stupid lawyers say what they think is right, the psychologists and psychiatrists aren't the ones saying it.

Even if he has AS, it wouldn't really explain what he did. He probably has other mental health problems. Normally people and their lawyers only care about winning the case, they don't care about stigmas or how accurate the diagnoses are. He could have even lied to get out of trouble, although I don't think that defense would work. Nobody cares if someone has AS. We experience that every day. The best he would get is life in a place for the criminally insane.

Now that just isnt right, either way. People with AS have a high regard for rules and regulations, so regardless of what some one has done to an aspie, i dont see him/her going apeshit and killing the person. If anything, the worst thing an Aspie would do could be more of a mild misdemeanor due to his/her obsessive behavior (heard of a case of an aspie guy was so obsessed with the possible combinations of the lottery numbers, he broke into a thrift store and took most/all of the fill-in sheets). If anything, the episode you saw was likely written in compete ignorance of the condition (which isnt unheard of in many clinical/ER/medical/crime dramas).

I have autistic disorder which is considered the most severe form of autism. I don't go around killing people or hurting them.

I have always thought it strange that just as someone can be NT and a sociopath, one can be AS and a sociopath, as well.

I hate mis-information. They got it wrong. They mislabeled. Arg.

I'm angry because there's more wrong information out there now.

I can understand your distress at their mis-representation of Aspergers. The story was obviously fiction! Some writers are just morons. lol

As far as crimminal acts by people whether they are AS,HFA,BP,SCHIZOPHRENIC, non ASD etc, its all about mens rea. Whether the persons intentions were to steal, murder, assault etc.

There was a man in, I think, Oakland? An engineer who murdered his wife and they say he has Asperger's. It was, for whatever reason, brought up in the trial. I think it has nothing to do with being violent, but it does look like his lawyer was using it as a reason for his behavior.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/0 ... -in-reise/

I think some people are prone to violence and it has nothing to do with being on the spectrum, just if someone is violent and on the spectrum it gets brought up. My 13 yr old stepson (with NVLD) will lash out violently when he gets upset, and he sometimes takes it out on my 8 yr old, but the last time I told him I'll call the cops if he does it again and he hasn't tried anything since. He lashes out for strange reasons though, if my 8 yr old beats him in a game, he hits him or if my son in any way, touches my stepson when they are sitting next to each other in the car he'll strike my son and in all honesty, my stepson is a big guy and it's very hard for them not to touch in the car which is why I am in the market for a minivan.

Robert Durst being found "not guilty" had less to do with Asperger's Syndrome and more with the fact he is a NY real estate heir worth a lot of money. This is the real reason he got away with it.

I can see an Aspie murdering someone about as easily as I can see a neurotypical doing the same. AS doesn't give you any particular tendency towards violence, even though it doesn't give you any particular tendency towards pacifism either.

AS+sociopathy is probably a rather scary thing--someone who sees people as objects to be used for his own benefit, and has the benefit of a detail-oriented mind and probably the ability to think in original ways, and lack of social connections. If his inability to lie convincingly thanks to poor social skills didn't get him caught (possibly because he simply kept his thoughts and actions to himself), he might be very good at being a criminal. I would see a malicious computer hacker or a lone bomber could be AS+sociopathy; but it wouldn't be the AS that caused them to do those things.

Of course, your NT sociopath (well, NT other than being a sociopath) would be scary in a different way--the sort of person who likes to intimidate others to feel superior, or hurt others because he likes to see them in pain; the sort of person who will use charm and manipulation to get what he wants while ignoring the existence of others' rights. That sort of sociopathy has a completely different feel to it; but of course it's not being NT that's forcing them to do those things (take note, those of you who think NTs are all manipulative, bullying liars); it's the fact that they do have this sociopathic outlook that tells them people are only worth as much as what they can give you or do for you...

I would agree with the above statement about NTs if it were not for "mob mentality". An NT who is, generally, a nice person can exhibit "bullying" behaviour when around other NTs doing the same thing, but, can be the exact opposite when not encouraged. People have a good opinion about them and may describe them as caring individuals and be surprised when they hear they bullied someone. I wouldn't exactly call such types "sociopathic", but more like bigots who justify picking on a certain type of person because society tells them "it's okay". If a majority says it's okay to pick on people who are different in some way (and, in America, society often says this is just fine because we don't want to be "PC" and want to be free to express ourselves honestly) it's not really sociopathic behavior. Not classic sociopathy, which is one person acting nice and sweet, telling you what you want to hear, then using you for their own means and ends, not caring about what you want or need.

I was perusing through austlii one day, and I found a case where a teenager with Asperger's was bullied by a peer at school; he stabbed and almost killed said bully due to such. He got off, as AS was very pertinent to the case; he was unable to ask for assistance from others, and the individual mercilessly bullied and tormented him due to being unable to respond in a "normal" way.

The boy with AS had to attend a certain amount of therapy sessions, but the judge was an understanding person with his verdict.

This above shows that AS can and must be used as a defense if it's a genuine reason, as this individual with AS couldn't ask for help like his normal peers would have (plus, he would have gone to jail otherwise).

I think autism, including AS, is a correct and plausible defence in some crimes. Especially in those, that are about situations in which an autistic person reacted normal or 'plausible' to unconventional attacks.

Some people claim that if you are hit, hitting back unconsciously/automatically from pain and anxiety is fine. It is also acceptable to hit back consciously if you are very frightened and badly hurt or even injured in some way to keep the other off.

I think hitting back is wrong. I can however understand it completely! People said to me that if they are hit rapidly or even injured, they cannot think rationally like in other situation.

Autism can mean experiencing the world differently, it does make you react differently too. Being hit is different to me than to other non-autistic and autistic people.

If I am hit, I usually don't hit back. If I am hurt or injured by it, I feel adrenaline too, but think calmly and rationally about what to do. I think hard about the best way to stop the attacker without hurting him or her too badly. I don't go crying and screaming and freaking out, because my brain doesn't make me.

I lack the 'freak out now' reaction in this context, but of course I still got it in another.

I need to tell some people not to touch me and talk to me because it hurts my mind and sensory system badly. They however don't listen because they cannot imagine somebody would be hurt by it so badly. Because while I tell them not to, they might do it again and again. They don't hurt and get anxious being screamed in the ear, they get hurt and anxious being hit, so they might think it's very funny anyone would mind talking and touching.

If I they don't stop and if I cannot run away, I will lash out at them. I will do it automatically to make them get away and stop hurting me already. I am just a person, I too am as likely as every one else to hurt people back when being hurt and frighten me too badly.

To make anyone like a judge aware that I didn't just overreact on purpose because the judge of course thinks that no one can actually be as abused, hurt and frightened by being touched lightly as one would be abused by being hit or kicked or cut by a knife the individual AS/autism should be used as a defence in the same way that the psychology and neurology of normal reactions is used in defences too.