Info about living in an insane asylum or psychiatric ward?

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enamdar
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11 Nov 2009, 1:34 am

Anyone have info about living in Info about living in an insane asylum or psychiatric ward?

I don't really want to be treated, I just want to be commited to one, and live out my life there.

Seriously, does anyone have any real advice on how I can just drop out of society and the rat race? Its not healthy for me. And keeping a malcontent like me among society can't be good for society either. For my own good and society's I just need to be isolated from my "fellow" humans. they will only harm me, and I will only harm them. Thats what the Lutheran Kierkegaard thinks the Catholics got right and the Protestants are missing. The monasteries were a safety valve that allowed people antagonistic to this world, to escape it without disrupting the system. We really don't have that in our age, other than the "choice" to starve on the street, which is where I'm headed. There really is no safety valve or escape hatch. I don't know maybe there are some deserted islands out there in the Pacific, where I could literally be a Robinson Crusoe. Probably not realistic though. Well if those islands exists, I suppose its possible I could somehow get there with a few thousand dollars. I probably wouldn't last long in the wild. But nature is a less cruel enemy than man. Nature will kill me but not enslave me. Or being a hermit somehow, but that takes capital. I just need to get
away from it all. I reject all social relations. I never want to see another human again. The very sight and smell of them repulses me. I've really lost touch. I just don't get humans. I used to think I did. But the more I study them, the less I understand them. Or maybe I understand them empirically, I know what they actually do and on an intellectual scientific level I can understand their motivations partially. But I can't get inside their heads. Their endless cruelty just escapes me.
I mean I guess part of it is the Hegelian recognition, the master must enslave to be recognized. And Nieztche elaborated on it as the will to power. And you can try and make it scientific by just transmitting the Will to Gene. The human fascination and lust for cruelty just escapes me. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that is what you need to survive, and I'm just a Darwinian miscarriage. Or maybe I have too much of Freud's superego. I've internalized too much of what society SAYS is good and become that. In that sense I am the society I hate so much- personified.
I'm the materialization of the spiritual imagination of society. I'm the Feurbachian God made flesh. I can understand the mind of God, which is the spirtitualization of society, more clearly than that of man. The regret at what man could have been and what he actually is before the flood. I suppose the God's eye view of the universe, is a curse and burden to us worm, dust, dirt.

I belong in solitary confinement. The prison population of course is the embodiment and hyperdistortion of man's will to power, although I would say the difference with the general population is only quantitative in nature. So obviously prison itself is no utopia. But solitary confinement in the "hole" would be my paradise. To be free from all human contact and all activity. To just sit in an empty cell 24 hours a day. And to have guards slide in the food. It has come to the point where my only conception of freedom is liberty from humanity. And so freedom becomes a prison cell. IDK, I guess at the rate I'm going I will probably end up in an insane asulym believing I'm Napoleon Bonaparte. As long as I make the leap of faith and truly believe I'm the Emperor, then nothing can imprison me. The insane asulym is in its own way a utopia, and it beats the streets. It is kind of like Plato's Republic. With the Golden Guardians. Maybe I will memorize Napoleon's memoirs and not let anyone convince me that I'm not Bonaparte. What could be a better life than living in Plato's Republic convinced you are the Emperor.



Last edited by enamdar on 11 Nov 2009, 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

crownarmourer
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11 Nov 2009, 2:26 am

Er don't you really want to be surrounded by real crazy people it's your life.



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11 Nov 2009, 3:03 am

Upon reading Lab Pet did consider formulating a contrary argument, but.....well, you have a point. However, solitary confinement (addressing what crownarmourer wrote) would be deletorious since humans, Autistic or no, do need some social stimulation.

Seems as if you've metaphorically burned. Understandable. You're also well spoken which certainly gives you bonus points. Aspies are known for our extreme introspection. But this can make living amongst others difficult, I know.

Admittedly, I like your humor along with the cogent argument. Ok, maybe just a hiatus, not psych ward? Really don't think you'd be considered 'mentally ill,' at least not enough for committment. I'm sorry you've been hurt.

Have you considered writing, as an occupation? Or maybe working where you're confined/safe - you have so much contribute and we wouldn't that hidden away in an institution.


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invisibitsy
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11 Nov 2009, 3:27 am

If it helps, I've been a lurker around here and this post of yours has prompted me to make my first one.

If it helps, I can relate to nearly every sentence you wrote. And, if it helps, I'm still trying to survive within the rat race too, despite how tired I am, at only age 22.

Not all humans are so indecent. The ones you would probably get along best with, are the same ones who are likely to be in the background loathing the daily grind much like yourself. Thus, you probably mostly only notice the uber obnoxious types.

Of course, I understand it's not exactly quite that simple.

But still - don't give up. Reach out, as you clearly have been doing at 56 posts. Some of us genuinely care. Good luck, friend... private message me anytime.



Willard
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11 Nov 2009, 3:45 am

I can't advise you on total isolation (and I'm not sure 'total' is really healthy), and don't know your age or where you live. In the US, if you qualify for public assistance, and if you can manage the monthly budgeting of a limited fixed income (some with severe Executive Disability may not be able to do so), you can live in relative isolation in an apartment of your own, just paying minimal subsistence bills and be left to yourself.

You will however need to obtain an official diagnosis for an ASD, which can be done through a local Mental Health facility that handles low-or-no-income clients (if you qualify), where you can begin by seeking diagnosis for depression and /or social anxiety, then requesting to be tested for AS, HFA, or an appropriate DX on the Autistic Spectrum.

Whether or not this qualifies you for public assistance may depend on your age, level of function, severity of condition, etc. Once you have a formal diagnosis, look for an attorney who files Social Security Disability claims on a No-Win-No-Fee basis.

Start by looking for a Mental Health Facility where you can begin treatment for your depression (which you obviously have if you are considering seeking this kind of isolated existence). The first step is obtaining counseling and guidance from those who understand both the disorder and the system. Again, this is within the US, but chances are the steps are somewhat similar for wherever you may be.

Good luck.



enamdar
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11 Nov 2009, 3:54 am

I think for my personality relative isolation would be far worse than total isolation. I'm a spiteful resentful person who can not bear having my social betters above me. I'm in a period of relative isolation now having dropped of school and not seeking a job. Just living off my money which should last .5 to 1 year. I was friendly and jovial with my housemates at first, but now I try to avoid seeing them. The thing about my depression and need for social isolation, is it stems more from existential metaphysics than anything personal. So I'm basically getting a taste of what living on a fixed income would be like now. And the USA has one of the worst welfare states in the world, we love the struggle to the death.

I'm thinking of committing myself, but not being cured. In a way it is utopian. Like Plato's Republic being watched over by authoritarian all-powerful guardians who are trying to fix you. There is complete equality among inmates, all your needs are met without work, and no private property. The trade of security for freedom. But that is the nature of utopia, nearly all since Plato's time have acknowledge the need for both the sacrifice of individuality and freedom, and a strong authoritarian bureaucracy. That is the type of power the asylum has over you, their power is institutionalized and bureaucratic like in a utopia. There is the loss of the human element. It is mechanical machine like. But it is precisely the human element of subordination, domination, and power that makes it so humiliating and unbearable. I would prefer to be a patient over an employee. A prison can be a utopia. Bentham's utopia is designed as the perfect prison system. And of course the mental institution itself is the petproject of a plethora of progressive enlightenment reformers overcoming the dark of superstition with the light of science. It is itself a utopian project.



Last edited by enamdar on 11 Nov 2009, 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

invisibitsy
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11 Nov 2009, 4:04 am

Ah, but where is the life without the struggle? Where is the climax?

This too shall pass, but if total isolation is truly what you seek, then truly it will be what you get, eventually somehow.


By the way, have you ever been institutionalized? I can tell you it's not as romantic as the picture you've painted in your head... at least from my experience.



enamdar
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11 Nov 2009, 4:13 am

invisibitsy wrote:
Ah, but where is the life without the struggle? Where is the climax?

This too shall pass, but if total isolation is truly what you seek, then truly it will be what you get, eventually somehow.


By the way, have you ever been institutionalized? I can tell you it's not as romantic as the picture you've painted in your head... at least from my experience.


No I haven't which is why I made this post. But from the long WP thread on people's experiences, it was precisely the worst aspects they hated that conform to the utopian vision.



invisibitsy
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11 Nov 2009, 4:47 am

Er, my reply didn't post for some reason, so forgive me if this shows up twice.

So then, a response to your original question: "Info about living in an insane asylum or psychiatric ward?"
Well, the only privacy I ever got was in the bathroom, and forget any locks on the door. So isolation is out of the question, unless of course you really know how to fake being insane (judging from your writing, you seem to be sane enough to me). Even then, insanity in itself won't reward you isolation. You'd have to present physical violence for that. In which case you'd get restrained, in a room apart from the others, yes; but even so, you will still be supervised by at least one professional at all times. So, in my case, total isolation was always completely out of the question.


I do recommend you check out my friend Suelo's blog, google 'zerocurrency' and it should be the first result.
Generating a lot of controversy, his lifestyle is typically deemed as too extreme in the eyes of most. But I thought you might find interest in it, seeing as you mentioned the whole Crusoe thing. Good luck.



Cerumenator
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11 Nov 2009, 8:24 am

Those places you mention smell very bad, and are very noisy.
Lots of yelling and crying. By men.



lithium73
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11 Nov 2009, 8:47 am

I used to have this ability when i was younger to wander around in a sort of vacuum, separated from the world around me. I have lost it now and feel like i am being constantly pushed to the edge by forced interaction with people. you are not alone in your desire of utopia.



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11 Nov 2009, 8:59 am

Relevant post about isolation. topic

Check out the above. This might be a good idea.

There are also other good threads about wanting to live in isolation. Just enter some key word in the Google Custom search bar on the right side of the WrongPlanet.net banner.

Good luck.


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enamdar
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11 Nov 2009, 3:03 pm

Some relevant passages on Foucault:

Michel Foucault (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Quote:
3.1 History of Madness

The most striking example of this mode of Foucault's thought is his first major work, The History of Madness in the Classical Age (1961). This book originated in Foucault's academic study of psychology (a licence de psychologie in 1949 and a diplome de psycho-pathologie in 1952) and his work in a Parisian mental hospital, but it was mainly written during his post-graduate Wanderjahren (1955-59) through a succession of diplomatic/educational posts in Sweden, Germany, and Poland. A study of the emergence of the modern concept of “mental illness” in Europe, The History of Madness is formed from both Foucault's extensive archival work and his intense anger at what he saw as the moral hypocrisy of modern psychiatry. Standard histories saw the nineteenth-century medical treatment of madness (developed from the reforms of Pinel in France and the Tuke brothers in England) as an enlightened liberation of the mad from the ignorance and brutality of preceding ages. But, according to Foucault, the new idea that the mad were merely sick (“mentally” ill) and in need of medical treatment was not at all a clear improvement on earlier conceptions (e.g., the Renaissance idea that the mad were in contact with the mysterious forces of cosmic tragedy or the 17th-18th-century view of madness as a renouncing of reason). Moreover, he argued that the alleged scientific neutrality of modern medical treatments of insanity are in fact covers for controlling challenges to a conventional bourgeois morality. In short, Foucault argued that what was presented as an objective, incontrovertible scientific discovery (that madness is mental illness) was in fact the product of eminently questionable social and ethical commitments.

Foucault's next history, The Birth of the Clinic (1963) can similarly be read as a critique of modern clinical medicine. But the socio-ethical critique is muted (except for a few vehement passages), presumably because there is a substantial core of objective truth in medicine (as opposed to psychiatry) and so less basis for critique. As a result The Birth of the Clinic is much closer to a standard history of science, in the tradition of Canguilhem's history of concepts. The same is true of The Order of Things, which was controversial much more for its philosophical attacks on phenomenology (and Marxism) than for its complex and nuanced critique of the human sciences. But Foucault returns with full force to social critique in Discipline and Punish.
3.2 Archaeology and Genealogy

Discipline and Punish marks the transition to what commentators generally characterize as Foucault's “genealogical” period, in contrast to the preceding “archaeological” period. In 1969, he published The Archaeology of Knowledge, a methodological treatise that explicitly formulates what he took to be the implicit historical approach (“archaeology”) he deployed in The History of Madness, The Birth of the Clinic, and The Order of Things. The premise of the archaeological method is that systems of thought and knowledge (epistemes or discursive formations, in Foucault's terminology) are governed by rules, beyond those of grammar and logic, that operate beneath the consciousness of individual subjects and define a system of conceptual possibilities that determines the boundaries of thought in a given domain and period. So, for example, The History of Madness should, Foucault maintained, be read as an intellectual excavation of the radically different discursive formations that governed talk and thought about madness from the 17th through the 19th centuries. (Admittedly, his archaeological method was only adumbrated in this early work, but it was fully developed in The Order of Things.)

Archaeology was an essential method for Foucault because it supported a historiography that did not rest on the primacy of the consciousness of individual subjects; it allowed the historian of thought to operate at an unconscious level that displaced the primacy of the subject found in both phenomenology and in traditional historiography. However, archaeology's critical force was restricted to the comparison of the different discursive formations of different periods. Such comparisons could suggest the contingency of a given way of thinking by showing that previous ages had thought very differently (and, apparently, with as much effectiveness). But mere archaeological analysis could say nothing about the causes of the transition from one way of thinking to another and so had to ignore perhaps the most forceful case for the contingency of entrenched contemporary positions. Genealogy, the new method deployed in Discipline and Punish, was intended to remedy this deficiency.

Foucault intended the term “genealogy” to evoke Nietzsche's genealogy of morals, particularly with its suggestion of complex, mundane, inglorious origins — in no way part of any grand scheme of progressive history. The point of a genealogical analysis is to show that a given system of thought (itself uncovered in its essential structures by archaeology, which therefore remains part of Foucault's historiography) was the result of contingent turns of history, not the outcome of rationally inevitable trends.
3.3 History of the Prison

Discipline and Punish (1975)is a genealogical study of the development of the “gentler” modern way of imprisoning criminals rather than torturing or killing them. While recognizing the element of genuinely enlightened reform, Foucault particularly emphasizes how such reform also becomes a vehicle of more effective control: “to punish less, perhaps; but certainly to punish better”. He further argues that the new mode of punishment becomes the model for control of an entire society, with factories, hospitals, and schools modeled on the modern prison. We should not, however, think that the deployment of this model was due to the explicit decisions of some central controlling agency. In typically genealogical fashion, Foucault's analysis shows how techniques and institutions, developed for different and often quite innocuous purposes, converged to create the modern system of disciplinary power.

At the core of Foucault's picture of modern “disciplinary” society are three primary techniques of control: hierarchical observation, normalizing judgment, and the examination. To a great extent, control over people (power) can be achieved merely by observing them. So, for example, the tiered rows of seats in a stadium not only makes it easy for spectators to see but also for guards or security cameras to scan the audience. A perfect system of observation would allow one “guard” to see everything (a situation approximated, as we shall see, in Jeremy Bentham's Panopticon). But since this is not usually possible, there is a need for “relays” of observers, hierarchically ordered, through whom observed data passes from lower to higher levels.

A distinctive feature of modern power (disciplinary control) is its concern with what people have not done (nonobservence), with, that is, a person's failure to reach required standards. This concern illustrates the primary function of modern disciplinary systems: to correct deviant behavior. The goal is not revenge (as in the case of the tortures of premodern punishment) but reform, where, of course, reform means coming to live by society's standards or norms. Discipline through imposing precise norms (“normalization”) is quite different from the older system of judicial punishment, which merely judges each action as allowed by the law or not allowed by the law and does not say that those judged are “normal” or “abnormal”. This idea of normalization is pervasive in our society: e.g., national standards for educational programs, for medical practice, for industrial processes and products.

The examination (for example, of students in schools, of patients in hospitals) is a method of control that combines hierarchical observation with normalizing judgment. It is a prime example of what Foucault calls power/knowledge, since it combines into a unified whole “the deployment of force and the establishment of truth” (184). It both elicits the truth about those who undergo the examination (tells what they know or what is the state of their health) and controls their behavior (by forcing them to study or directing them to a course of treatment).

On Foucault's account, the relation of power and knowledge is far closer than in the familiar Baconian engineering model, for which “knowledge is power” means that knowledge is an instrument of power, although the two exist quite independently. Foucault's point is rather than, at least for the study of human beings, the goals of power and the goals of knowledge cannot be separated: in knowing we control and in controlling we know.

The examination also situates individuals in a “field of documentation”. The results of exams are recorded in documents that provide detailed information about the individuals examined and allow power systems to control them (e.g., absentee records for schools, patients' charts in hospitals). On the basis of these records, those in control can formulate categories, averages, and norms that are in turn a basis for knowledge. The examination turns the individual into a “case”—in both senses of the term: a scientific example and an object of care; caring is always also an opportunity for control.

Bentham's Panopticon is, for Foucault, an ideal architectural model of modern disciplinary power. It is a design for a prison, built so that each inmate is separated from and invisible to all the others (in separate “cells”) and each inmate is always visible to a monitor situated in a central tower. Monitors will not in fact always see each inmate; the point is that they could at any time. Since inmates never know whether they are being observed, they must act as if they are always objects of observation. As a result, control is achieved more by the internal monitoring of those controlled than by heavy physical constraints.

The principle of the Panopticon can be applied not only to prisons but to any system of disciplinary power (a factory, a hospital, a school). And, in fact, although Bentham himself was never able to build it, its principle has come to pervade every aspect of modern society. It is the instrument through which modern discipline has replaced pre-modern sovereignty (kings, judges) as the fundamental power relation.



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11 Nov 2009, 3:36 pm

I haven't been, but it's my impression that there aren't really any 'asylums' in the literal sense of the word to go away to. They sound worse than being in prison, and ASD people (especially un-dx'ed ones) seem to have increased chances being horribly abused there.

Here's a couple of ASD people who were in instituions talking about it:

http://www.autistics.org/library/conversation.html



enamdar
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11 Nov 2009, 6:30 pm

Are psych wards free?



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14 Nov 2009, 7:40 am

enamdar wrote:
Are psych wards free?
no basically no-one cant afford em anyway u just seem depressed go to doctor/do what u enjoy :D
im personally living in grouphome and while i have good friends in here it would be great to live at my own :)


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