Need help with suicidal Aspie son

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My 17 year old son is an Aspie. He's in 10th grade and an only child. Spencer has no friends and goes to a public school that he loved last year. This year the homework really ramped up and everything changed.

I knew he was really anxious, and has become fixated on prisons (new specialty subject) and all the injustice in the world. He gets really upset about various dictators and what they're up to - like North Korea. It's a very negative thing to be focused on.

Recently, he started threatening suicide, which we took very seriously. He spent a few days in a hospital for it - he said he was hearing voices, but we determined that they were probably his own voice. The voices were telling him to do bad things to himself and others. He is now taking Lexapro and is about 3 weeks into recovery. He's still very anxious and depressed, though it seems to be getting better.

I could use some advice on a few things.

First, how to get the school to actually follow the new IEP we're going to write. The resource room teacher does nothing. and I mean nothing. She says she'll do things, but doesn't. So, we can write the best IEP in the world, but how do I make sure she actually does it?

I now understand a lot more about depression in teens in general. He never seemed sad - but anxious. Any tips on helping an Aspie with depression? He has no friends and is lonely. My husband and I are his friends, but it's not the same. I'm working on setting up a social group comprised of other kids who don't fit the norm - not all Aspies. Spencer seems to like this idea. Any other ideas? I don't think he gets bullied, but a lot of that would be over his head.


In school Spencer is known as the smart kid who is weird. The kids avoid him - he's so uncool. Can't be seen with him. You know what it's like. I hope the social group will help.

The final issue is that he is constantly apologizing for things and asking if he was rude. The poor guy is terrified of making a mistake. He's terrified that he will get detention if he's late for class. The fact that he's never late for class doesn't seem to register. How can I help him understand social rules more? If he accidentally touches me, like bumps my elbow in the lightest way while reaching for something, he apologizes and has to be reassured that everything is okay - I'm not mad at him for bumping my elbow. That's just an example, but it's everything! He's so wound up.

I feel very helpless. I'm afraid he's going to commit suicide. I'm afraid the school will let him down. I want to help him take his worries away. Where should I start?

We do have an excellent new therapist - a gift from God.

Does anyone have some advice on a book or anything?

First of all, I'm not a doctor. What I'm telling you is merely conjecture and should not be taken seriously.

Now that that's out of the way. . . Its possible that Spencer is serious about the suicide. When I was a kid and had no friends, I also always asked if I was doing anything wrong and apologized in a similar manner.

In addition, I made threats about suicide. However, I would never commit suicide and knew this even when making threats about it. I only made threats about suicide in an attempt to cry for help. My parents were not aware of the fact that I was being manipulative and would never commit suicide and was just using that as a way to get them to try to understand how upset the kids at school were making me and how this stress was too much when combined with all the homework I was required to do.

The way to get him happy again is to lessen the stress of homework (get the teachers to allow him as long as he needs to complete assignments) and find something he's interested in and arrange for him to work on that because that will bring him joy.

While the way he's focused on injustice in the world is currently making him upset, it's possible to turn that passion into a career by shifting his focus from the negatives to the positives. You'd be surprised how easy it might be to get him to focus on what people are doing to fix things and what HE can do to contribute. Instead of telling him that his interest is negative, start giving him ideas. Mention stuff like prison reform and talk about the work that amnesty international is doing to change things.

There is a big future for him in so many fields ranging from working in fundraising for nonprofits like amnesty international to becoming an international human rights lawyer in addition to the entire fields of public policy, conflict resolution, international law, public relations, advocacy, even filmmaking.

The school is required by law to follow the IEP to the letter. Does he not have an IEP already? Are there other resource teachers available in the school? Are there other public schools in the area? I ask because you have the right for him to go to another public school (even outside your district) if he cannot get the needed services at the school he is assigned to.

I had some odd fixations. Probably the big thing I had to learn was when and where to discuss them.



Good luck on that one. Teachers in public school, especially resource room teachers, seem to think they're immune to the advice of parents. I had one resource room teacher who forced me to choose my classes for my Sophomore year and wouldn't let me wait until I could talk it over with my mother.

Unless your son can put his foot down (and as he's 17 going on 18 that's a skill I would seriously consider teaching him) and tell the teacher, in a respectful but firm manner, that this is the way he needs to be helped, then there's not much you can do. Unless you want to stand right over him at every second of the day, which isn't something you want to do if you want him to function on his own in the real world.



Other than whatever advice the therapist can offer there's not much anyone here can suggest professionally.

There has to be something he enjoys. Even we Aspies aren't doom and gloom 24/7. If you can find out what seems to make him happier than usual you may have to encourage it, even if it's his "prisons" fascination.

On the other hand his focus on dictators and how they treat their citizens could also be pay dirt. Does his school have a Model United Nations club? Some of the topics discussed in Model UN deal with foreign relations and dealing with dictators.



One thing I would advise on here, I had a teacher who thought it would be a good idea to "hook me up" with a "friend" my own age and with "similar interests". Mind you this woman had a very bizarre idea of the kind of people I would consider making friends with, and the little "play date" turned into a blood bath. Ever imagine what the races would look like if Sarah Palin ran against Hillary Clinton? Same as us only we were both fairly civil.



That's just something he has to overcome on his own. I went through the same "I'm sorry" phase, only I had mine when I left Job Corps and it didn't let up until about three years later. If he apologizes and you get visibly annoyed about it, he's only going to apologize for making you uspet and that will be worse.

As for his need to not be late, I would offer this approach. Since being on time is bascially a much required function of the real world I would just praise him openly. Something like, "You know a lot of people wouldn't care one way or the other if they were late. You are very responsible and you're very considerate and that's rare."

Honestly, hearing little remarks like that, either directed at me or overhearing them in a discussion picked me up pretty quickly. It made me feel like someone was noticing the positive aspects of my behavior and not just the negative, which was always blown out of proportion. If you act like what he's doing is "wrong" or "annoying" then he will always believe that he is annoying and he will keep apologizing.



He's seventeen now so I don't know what grade he's in. But have you ever considered Upward Bound? It might be a good idea for him.

It's a college program that gives high school students a chance to interact with each other. He might even find mentors outside of the family who will nurture his talents and help him interact on a more socially acceptable level. Heck, Upward Bound is bound to have one or two other aspies in their midst. It was a great experience for me and maybe it's an option for your son.



Until people with Asperger's write more books there isn't any book I would recommend because none of them are written by Aspies. Why would you want the advice of someone who only thinks they know what's going on in our heads?

I'm always happy to help out a fellow aspie so feel free to PM me if this response was in anyway helpful.

I remember when I was your son's age. I was sucidal. The regular kids would move to another table, if I sat with them. I wore thsoe loud flowered shirts, as a signal, that I would be covered with flowers and at peace, soon. I wore the headband as a symbol of eternal peace. There was a two week period, where I didn't bring a lunch to school, in hopes that I would die. It was my way of saying, "I won't be on this planet much longer. I will experience eternal peace in Heaven." I wonder if I should talk to my mum about it, the next time I visit her. I could send her a message on Facebook.

Thanks so much for your help and advice. Spencer actually threatened suicide so much that we had him hospitalized for a few days earlier this month. He was hearing voices (though the doctor determined that these were his own thoughts - not Napoleon). He can't read to himself, he's so anxious. Though that's coming back. I really think he would have killed himself if we hadn't intervened.

I think everyone's advice about being more positive is really a great one. And it's so important to hear this from others who are dealing with the same issues. Spencer joined Amnesty International earlier this year, but soon was too afraid to ask the teacher when the next meeting would be. I've taken that on for him. I'm actually very proud of his interest in the world. He's a very thoughtful person. And I dont know any other teens who regularly read the BBC News and the New York Times. Or even adults who can discuss the Electoral College. Fortunately, he's the son of two geeks, so he fits right into our little family.

But! It's scary to be a parent of any child. We worry so much about all the dangers out there. So when I see Spencer so miserable and focusing on prisons it scares me. I will try my best to be more positive about it, but I really can't wait until he's on to something else. On the other hand, I think it would be great for him to stick with the international scene. That could take him to great places in life.

Spencer went to Africa last summer for 3 weeks on a National Geographic tour for high school kids. He loved it. He went with NT kids and, though it was obvious he was different, there were no troubles. He wants to go to China this summer. I think he had so much fun hanging out with kids 24/7 that it made going back to school with no friends really hard.

Oh, and about the social group - trust me - I know what you're talking about. The schools always think 2 Aspies will get along. That's like saying 2 blondes or people with warts will get along. This group I'm thinking of was put together by the speech therapist so they could go to dinner together before homecoming. It worked out, so I thought I'd start with that group and maybe add another kid or two. They can go bowling, to a movie, hang out at our house. And if they don't want to come, they don't have it. It's informal. I know it's somewhat artificial, but I figure that it's better than nothing.

I'd like more advice on the apologizing thing. I don't know how to explain "the rules". I told Spencer that I'd let him know if he needs to apologize, but I guess that's too hard. It's not that big a deal. We don't get angry. I just wish I could take that worry away from him. I wish I could do a Vulcan mind meld on him to take all those worries away. But I know all parents wish that.

Thanks again for the help - keep it coming!

When I was younger I used to apologize a lot or ask if I was being annoying or talking too much. I felt like any time I was expressing myself I was being annoying, because I didn't know how much was too much. I'm not sure if your son is dealing with the same thing.. I've never really understood why I was like that. Maybe it's just anxiety that results from being different and is only a symptom of the other problems....? I'm not sure if it can be taught, or if you just have to learn it the hard way, like everything else.

One of the things that we sometimes lose sight of is that there can be multiple circumstances all affecting the same individual.

In your son's case, Asperger's Syndrome is a permanent condition that is not amenable to medical treatment, but for which learned skills and behaviours can compensate.

On the other hand, depression and anxiety are two, separate, conditions that are amenable to medical treatment, and should be examined individually.

Drug therapies are not always the best approach to anxiety and to depression, but sometimes they are necessary approaches. If your pancreas was not producing insulin, you would not hesitate to take daily injections of insulin to cope with that deficit. Why should we think any differently of the neurons that fail to produce serotonin (for example). If there is a physiological cause of the depression or of the anxiety, then there is no reason that your son and his doctor should not look at the options that are available for treatment.

Ongoing, and meaningful discussion with a physician is an important part of helping a patient identify the best course of action. While your son is still a minor, and thus, you have a role in this discussion as well, he is going to have to start taking control of his own medical decisions, and you will need to help him assume this responsibility.

I tried to kill myself at age 17. I'm lucky to still be here, but I'm really glad that I am. I can't say life has been easy, but I've had all sorts of experiences and adventures that I'm very grateful for.

Hope for the future is a really big deal, as is a sense of purpose. I'd agree with other posters about the importance of Spencer's special interest... there's so much he could do with this. It took me a long time, without any real encouragement from anyone, to pursue my interest in psychology, but years later I'm finally training to be a psychologist and psychotherapist. I'd have never dreamed I'd be doing it, but now I have this in my life, whatever else is going wrong, I have a reason to look to the future, and a purpose to serve in trying to help others. Spencer's special interest can really work for him the same way, and he's got you there to encourage him. I hope all goes well with him... sometimes it's very hard to see how things can get any better when you are very depressed, but just a single strong aspiration or goal can start to change everything.

Sounds familiar.

This seems a lot like the post you made back in September, only your son has become more despondent since then. If it makes you feel any better, I can tell you that what your son is going through is not something new. There are a lot of people on this forum who can tell you very similar stories from their childhood, myself included. I know full well what it is like to be treated like a pariah by my classmates. It's not really the lack of friendship that seems to be the problem, but more so being treated like a second class citizen and being rejected by others simply because your not like them. At least your son is lucky enough that he has a loving and supportive home to return to. I know what it is like to look around and see a corrupt, uncaring, and abusive world. I know what it is like to feel hopeless and depressed. I contemplated suicide more then once when I was younger.

Of course I guess the question obviously is then what did I do to get over it? Well, for starters, I got got sick and tired of people picking on me and stood up for myself. In other words, I got angry and decided that enough was enough. Many people seem to think that anger is automatically a bad emotion that must be suppressed. But the truth is that if I didn't get angry, I would still be depressed. Anger may cause problems if you dont control it, but if you don't get angry over the injustice, then you never learn to stand against it. Anger is a very powerful tool when you learn to control it. If you let people walk all over you then you just become more depressed, more withdrawn, and more avoidant until all you are left with is severe anxiety and a hopeless and bleak outlook. You constantly doubt yourself, thinking that your always doing something wrong, constantly looking over your shoulder, apologizing for everything, just hoping that nobody attacks you. Trust me, I've been there, it isnt fun.

So tell your son to get angry. Get angry at those who oppress others, get angry at those who treat others poorly, get angry at the people who are insulting him. Because at least anger can be channeled into doing something about the situation. Self pity and anxiety won't help you, but standing up for yourself will. Your son needs to know that his life is worth living, and if his classmates or teachers think otherwise well then they can shut up. If the world seems oppressive and cruel then thats just the way things are, but it doesn't mean he has to take it lying down. If your son is going to be able to handle the pressures of this world then he is going to have to resist them. And the first step in doing that is to stand strong and not let other people's actions dictate his opinion of himself. Tell him that he shouldn't take crap from anybody and that includes himself. It may not seem very peaceful, but the truth is that people wont let you have peace unless you are willing to stand up for yourself and take it. It took me many years to learn that lesson the hard way.

As for other suggestions, I guess I can only repeat what I told you in your last post. Get your child an activity which he enjoys. I recommended games like D+D or other online social games like MMORPGs, and that recommendation still stands. It is a very good way to find and connect with people who are probably more like your child then the average high school crowd.

I would love to tell you the magic secret to helping your son, but the truth is that the only person who can fix your son's problems is your son. So tell him to not take things lying down. Tell him to stand up for himself, even if it goes against the norm. Tell him that he has to make his own choices in life and stand by them with confidence, because the only way he is going to get people to respect him is if he respects himself first.

Wow, all of these previous posts are really good at answering this question.

Just for the record, my oldest son was 14 when he was at a camp, with friends, but hated the camp and told one of the counselors that he was hearing voices, and threated to commit suicide. We had to drive four hours to the camp to pick him up. We didn't know what to do -- then he began to write poetry online that talked about suicide, after a girl who he had fallen for didn't show similar affection for him. A friend notified me of this fact.

We never got him any help for this situation. I think that I felt that he would never go to a psychiatrist, so I didn't even try. At the time, I felt like he was trying to get attention.

He was a relatively popular, good-looking kid with friends. He was also 15, and totally unsure of himself, even if he had friends and girls who liked him (just not the one he wanted). Later, when he had grown up, I asked him about this time in his life. Although he mentioned having multiple times when he felt suicidal (mostly when he was a little boy, and REALLY had social problems), the time that we picked him up from camp, he just hated camp and knew that was a way that he could get us to bring him home.

My point is that much of this stuff is unexplainable. There may be reasons, but sometimes they make sense, and other times they do not. The suicide thing can happen to children who are tormented, and also children who would seem to have it all. Boys seem to have these feelings more than girls. But I have been highly impressed with the responses from the various posters who have talked about their personal experiences with wanting to commit suicide -- especially the concept of changing your son's special interest in prisons, etc. into a positive with an eye towards clubs that also are interested in this area, and an eye toward a career. You also seem to have a good grasp on how to support him and promote positive things in his life. He sounds like a very caring individual. This situation may very well be helped by appropriate anti-anxiety medication.

I had forgotten that I'd asked this same question earlier last Fall. You mentioned D+D or other online social games like MMORPGs. Spencer rolled his eyes at those, but of course he has never tried them. Now that we're all talking so much more about depression and I'm understanding the anxiety aspect of it, I'm going to give it another try.

I've learned so much more about depression and the anxiety aspect of it. I didn't realize Spencer was depressed.

When we get home (we're at the beach now), he's going to the YMCA with me on the weekends, riding bikes with his dad and we're going to plan a trip somewhere interesting for spring break. We all need something to look forward to.

I can't thank everyone enough for your thoughtful words of advice. This site is a real blessing. I think my son is the coolest guy. I really like him, which not all parents can say about their kids. We all love our kids, but we don't always get along with them. I think Spencer is so funny and so much fun. He's kind and thoughtful and his thoughts are deep. I know that as he grows older, others will see this aspect of him as well.

And now I'm going to start a new thread requesting tips on the dreaded IEP and how to handle the resource room teacher!

I dont recomend lexapro...not the best drug out there. Zoloft 100mg is better for depression and anxiety for me.
However anything over 120mg makes me hyper and angry. Also on the zoloft, name brand only...the generics dont work at all for some reason

you may also be looking at an onset of another condition that coexists with autism...like generalized anxiety disorder or OCD. I had OCD really bad and it made my life unbearable and also made me more vunerable to stress and change. He needs to be checked for that, Alot of people with autism also have OCD.
Between the OCD, the autism, and the depression, each issue can feed the other making him more unstable and can really cause him to decompensate quickly. OCD is treatable with the right medication...but like I said...I dont really recomend lexapro. Also Ocd onsets suddenly and stress is a trigger for it, I developed it at 12 and I became very depressed and anxious because of all the crazy thoughts in my head bombaring me all the time. The voices telling him to hurt people sounds a bit like OCD...because if he was developing schizophrenia then the thoughts would not bother him, but since they bother him very much and he knows that something is wrong enough to tell you...is a sign of OCD. When my OCD was really bad, I was suicial, not because I wanted to die, but because I wanted the thoughts to stop. I thought that if I was dead then I would get some peace. So I really recommend getting him checked out for it...and there is a kind of OCD that has very few compulsions...called pure obsessional OCD. I have that kind...and it can get servere, but with medication...it is managable and is only a cat meowing verses a lion roaring without the meds.


ohh and the resource lady. What you need to do is what my mom did when the teachers were not following my IEP, she showed up without notice and sat in the classroom and observed...took down notes of what they did and did not do and addressed it to the principal and superintendant. A few times of her showing up without notice changed their tune alittle. Also since you have that great therapist, maybe she/he could talk to the resource lady...therapists usually make good advocates because they know the system better and know how to get people's attention using social psychology.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Spencer's psychiatrist specializes in Asperger's. I'll ask her about the OCD, etc. His therapist is coming to our IEP meeting this week and I fully intend on paying those visits to the resource room.

Ya the the last thing they want is mom showing up...nothing makes uncomplant teachers etc more nervous...I am glad that I could help you

Jojo

if hes 17 shouldnt he be a junior or senior? as far as i know, you turn 16 during or the summer after your sophomore year

I would say give him an "out", for school.

Write a note, laminate it, stating something like;

"I am too upset to stay at school. I have my parent's permission to go home. I am going home now." add your home phone number to the card.

Let him know that if something happens, if he's overwhelmed, can't handle it, needs to get away, that he can use that card and nothing bad will happen to him.

Make sure he has a key to get inside his home.

If you feel it's necessary, make some more cards up for at home.

"I can't deal with this, I need love"
"I feel suicidal, please take me to the hospital."
"Don't leave me alone"
"I want to be distracted."
"I need to talk, do you have time?".

As a (suicidal) teen, I thought these things but was unable to speak/express them. When I tried I was most often misunderstood. If he could slip you such a card, you would know what he needed you to do and you could act.

Let him know all he has to do is slip you the message, and you'll respond.

My two cents.