Border Patrol agent kills boy after rocks were thrown

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A Border Patrol agent shot and killed a 15-year-old boy near El Paso, Texas, yesterday after rocks were thrown at him. Mexican officials are protesting the incident, claiming that it represents a new trend of excessive use of force by U.S. immigration officials.

Local FBI spokeswoman Andrea Simmons told El Paso Times reporter Maggie Ybarra that Border Patrol officers detained two people among a group suspected of entering the U.S. illegally Monday night. The officer told the rest of the people in the group to stop and retreat. Simmons said that instead of following directions, the others in the group surrounded the agent and threw rocks at him, which is when he fired his weapon.

José Reyes Baeza, the governor of Chihuahua, the Mexican state over the border from El Paso, told a local newspaper that the boy died because of "xenophobic and racist conduct" associated with popular support in the United States for the Arizona immigration law — even though the incident occurred on the Texas-Mexico border. Mexico's foreign ministry is calling for an investigation and said in a statement that "a use of firearms to repel an attack of stones represents a disproportionate use of force, particularly from authorities who have received specialized training."

T.J. Bonner, who heads a union representing Border Patrol agents, told the Associated Press that it's appropriate to answer rocks with bullets. "It is a deadly force encounter," he said. "One that justifies the use of deadly force."

Two weeks ago, an illegal immigrant died after a customs official used a taser against him while deporting him. Officials said the man had forced the agent to the ground before he used the taser.

According to Mexico's foreign ministry, the number of Mexicans hurt or killed by U.S. immigration authorities has risen from five in 2008 to 17 so far this year. A call to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to check those numbers has not yet been returned.


I seriously hope the agent is cleared of any wrongdoing.

The U.S. government (no longer "our" government) will likely answer the Mexican government's complaint by throwing our border agent in jail. Thrown rocks can kill a person, but this will likely matter little when it comes to the agent being prosecuted by the government.

As for my stand on illegal immigration: I believe that it is hypocritical to block, regulate, and tax people who try to immigrate to the United States while not doing the same for the goods and services they produce. If we bring back the tariff, then I believe we have a case for regulating immigration.

When I was in high school a kid was killed with a thrown rock no bigger than a billard ball. Drug runners use rock throwing kids to distract or devert boarder agent patrols all the time.

I'm guessing they weren't throwing pebbles at him, but ones that could do some damage; bigger rocks especially can kill people. Just because it's not a typical weapon (guns, knives, etc) doesn't mean it wasn't dangerous and didn't warrant a shooting response.

Is it unfortunate that someone died? Sure, it always is. But the agent could very well have been in serious danger. Instead of accusing increased death tolls on "xenophoic and racist conduct" one should look to see if it's due to increased use of deadly force by people crossing the border or not. I seem to recall a US man was killed crossing the border some time ago because he turned deadly; no one seemed to care too much, but perhaps that's because you couldn't accuse them of being racist then.

I wonder how Chinese, Israeli, Iranian, North Korean, or Russian border guards would respond to being assaulted. The border patrol should shoot unauthorized people entering this country imo.

If someone were to throw rocks at me or friends/co-workers/etc and it's even remotely possible the rock could make contact, I would shoot them. Shoot to kill. It is an odd thing to shoot to injure in many cases.

The issue I see is that police/patrols on the other side may feel very driven to shoot naughty Americans on their side.

Nevertheless, for some reason, it's common sense to me, to not throw rocks at people with guns, unless I accept they may in fact shoot me. Therefore, I would not throw rocks as a norm. Even if those with guns repulsed me, as those who would create such a disdain generally would be without much concern for my life or fellow humans I prefer not be killed; seeking any reason as an excuse to terminate me.

I have listened to a few border patrol agents and they have come off as fairly prejudice and want to slaughter all illegals. In their defense, they do deal with a lot of nonstop BS that I personally have no experienced or been made fully made aware of. If you look at local law enforcement, you can see they can get rather blind sighted. They are so use to every person lying to them (enough times of catching the lie or having evidence prove otherwise) that they begin using a fairly harsh shell of distrust as a default, begin resenting citizens/people in general, becoming addicted too confrontations/chases/etc., to the point they CAUSE problems that were not there and treat citizens like playtoys.

All the while expecting this kind of respect that the law is supposed to create, which for many it is there until they have that respect/trust beaten out of them from those very law enforcement as*holes. It's a downward spiral and border patrol agents triggering people unjustly is bound to happen

There's a rather telling article that deals with the proven death, destruction and suffering created by US laws dealing with illegal substances, such as cannabis. We have hard data showing the primary force that drives it all comes from US laws and enforcement. The patrol agents interviewed said they think legalizing cannabis/drugs in Mexico creates a drug haven for college students during breaks--- Their concern is for what? College students getting high and partying, concluding it causes too many deaths (which is the exact opposite in reality) in place of Mexico legalizing it...
They also are against any legalization for adults in the US, which seems odd considering their fear was people would go to Mexico specifically because the drugs were available legally. Anyways, they are not a mountain of logical thinking or seekers of harm reducing based on facts. So, while I can in some situations side with SHOOT people with rocks I am well aware they can be evil humans and there are times throwing a rock shouldn't warrant being shot.

However, here's a question:
What if someone threw a rock and it killed a patrol agent?
This is assuming the camera doesn't reveal the agent had been beating them or doing other extraneous things which are against the law/common sense.

Exactly.

Every country has a right to control what goes into the country and what goes out if it doesn't violate human rights.
It's a matter of the issues at the border.

I do too. Rocks are deadly weapons and the officer acted in self defense.

Rocks, especially if propelled by slings are as deadly as fire arms.

ruveyn

The kid was technically in Mexico.

The agent had no legal right to do what he did.

The agent had every right to defend himself. The best way of preventing a second rock from being thrown is to shoot the rock thrower.

When legality collides with self defense, legality loses (hooray!).

ruveyn

The best way of preventing a second rock from being thrown would be to dissuade the rock thrower in some way that didn't end up with a dead body. Only in the absence of that option, shooting the guy in defence is not unreasonable - you have to be foolhardy to attempt to injure or kill someone carrying a gun using stones - but dead children, be they never so stupid, is not a desirable outcome.

(It's something I tell myself every time I get to thinking that a line of nuclear fire from Mecca to Jerusalem would be a good thing, which is often. The thing to wish for is not carnage: the thing to wish for is that a bunch of stupid people grow up. )

If that happens Israel will dump all 250 of its nukes on its neighbors.

By the way, Meccah is a low tech place.

ruveyn

Now it's coming out that the boy was a wanted smuggler.

And the home of the holiest site in Islam, as Jerusalem holds the second holiest site. Vitud er enn, eda hvat?

(edit) Sorry for derailment, I'll shut up.

He was a kid throwing rocks. I mean, surely you won't shoot a kid for that. I myself never understood why kids do the dumb things they do, even when I was one of them, but still, I mean, it's no reason to shoot anyone. Yell at them, or get away, yes, but not shoot them.

Besides, he was killed on the south side of the border, wasn't he?

I just don't know why people can't be logical, and must act in such stupid and illogical ways. I dislike illegal immigration very much because I believe very firmly in obeying the law. There is a way to do things right, however, as I've said, people are extremely illogical, it seems.

Then I've seen such disgusting comments of people saying things about my country, my Mexico. I just don't see how Americans can pride themselves on anything, really. I mean, in all the time I've spent here, I have seen nothing to their credit, really. True, my country and my people have many flaws, however, what I can say if we are MUCH richer than Americans will ever be in terms of history, language, and culture, which is something that is very important, and worth very much. So the Americans have presidents, so what? The Spanih had a king, and we have had two emperors at least. The lady on my avatar, the empress Carlota, was the empress consort of Mexico, not first lady, but EMPRESS. She was also a niece of Marie Antoinette. In all my reading I have seen nothing in American history that so much as resembles that. Now that I think of it, no wonder people fell asleep in US and Arizona history all the time. Of course, I much rather invested the time wasted in American history by bringing a book and getting some reading done.

Then people here complain about the drug cartels and stuff, well, haven't they thought the fact that people on this side buy and consume the drugs, that could also contribute to the problem. They should lock the border agent in prison, as he is a murderer. And anyway, the border patrol has nothing good about it, really. I have always hated waiting almost two hours in line just to cross. If at least they did things right, then maybe it would be worth it. But they don't even do that. Some of them are rude, and like I said, they don't do their job properly. And how could they shoot a kid for throwing stones. He shouldn't have done it, true, but he was only a kid.

I just don't understand how all this could be happening. But then like I said, humans are illogical. Sometimes I do feel sad and ashamed to be one of them, and to have anything in common with them. As a character in a book I read said, the same character from the same book who never felt lonely when alone, but lonely when she was around other people for the first time in her life, she said 'but I too am a member of your species, Captain. Or at least I was. Perhaps I am not anymore. Perhaps you are right in thinking of me as an alien. I know I am different from you. You see, I do not kill'. I have thought many times that she is right.

Last edited by persian85033 on 10 Jun 2010, 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.