The ethics of procreation, and the meaning of "special&

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This is just a rant, feel free to think I'm a total jerk who's been brainwashed by NT bullying.

Firstly, procreation: I do not believe that autistics can morally justify having children under any circumstances. To make the choice to have a child who will likely be bullied, harassed, not understood, and depressed is like having a child in order to kick them repeatedly in the face, it's just not ethically sound. This segues into my next rant about as smoothly as gravel

WE ARE DISABLED. We are abnormal, and I for one am SICK of people calling it "special" and "differently abled" and other such euphemisms. It's time we learn to accept that we are for all intent and purpose, neurological defective.

And now I shall duck for cover whilst a flame war starts, and hope some legitimate posts are made. Good day.

Actually, I'm an NT and I don't agree--I think you can procreate, particularly if you are an aspie who knows how to and is willing to parent a kid just like you.

However, if you don't warn your NT partner that you're an aspie and your child might be as well BEFORE you procreate--then you're just a jerk.

NT's can parent aspies, but we're quite limited in our own way, and from everything I've seen, an AS child would do better with an aspie parent.

Flame away.

if this is being disabled, then i honestly don't mind being disabled much.
then again, my AS isn't too severe.
I'm planning on kids someday .

besides, some of the most important people in history were prolly auties or aspies.
There's always the chance one of my descendants could be wildly successful.
either that, or i could just end up spawning NTs. Being an autie/aspie parent doesn't automatically mean autie/aspie children. I have AS, but the rest of my family seems fairly normal for example.

Using your logic people of African descent shouldn't procreate because their children could end up having Sickle Cell Anemia. Which could cause them a lot of problems and hospital visits from childhood onwards.

Following that train of logic to fruition would result in going down the list of all genetic conditions that can be passed on to ones offspring and saying no one who has the possibility of passing down an unfavorable genetic condition should procreate.

Guess what that leads to? Thinking that only the people of "pure" genetic stock should breed. You know, like Hitler wanted.

And we are not disabled, we have strengths most NT's don't, and weaknesses most NT's don't as well. We are different, and just because you choose to view that as a negative thing doesn't mean that it is.

All children will be bullied and harassed. NTs don't get a free ride just because they fit in better than Aspises. They may not be bullied over the same things, but many are still bullied.

I think aspies have as much moral right to procreate as anyone else. But then again i don't think anyome should procreate. I think the world would be a much better place without any humans, but the rest of the world isn't taking me up on my suggestion, so like it or not, we are stuck with more people. You could, with as much justification, say that people who are likely to have stupid children shouldn't have kids. Heck, anyone who might ever be called a bad name would be better off never having been born.

Aspergers is a spectrum disorder. Some people are just mildly weird. Others have profound difficulty in functioning in society. A little bit of aspergers can be a very valuable thing. Sometimes even a lot of aspergers can be valuable. Are people with aspergers disabled? Yeah, probably some, but not all. EVERYBODY is broken in some way. You make the best of what you've got and try to get on with it. Some people don't have the advantage of being able to focus on a specific subject and get really good at that one thing. And that is their cross to bare.

You can focus on your deficits and never make use of your skills or you can work to reduce the time you spend worrying about problems and instead work at doing something useful with your life.

As far as social skills goes i'm disabled but i am good provider because of my IT skills and i care for people in my own peculiar way and at least some people,especially women find me quite appealing and attractive so why shouldn't i procreate,
I do not need to and doesn't feel the urge to but i am good with children and if by chance i will find love i can see and understand the meaning of sharing it with a child born out of this love.
As for bullying i guess i'll home-school the kid and let him choose his friends instead of forcing him into a group based on location and age/
Society is changing,there is more tolerance and understanding of uniqueness and even a growing demands and appreciation for those that use to be treated as "freaks"
If i had a chance i wouldn't mind adding another little freak to the mix and i suppose i can get him better than my family understood me because i know what it's like.

Last edited by nara44 on 20 Jun 2010, 3:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

If the child will be "bullied, harassed, not understood, and depressed" it will be the fault of society who acts that way towards him/her, not the child. Instead of trying to change, or prevent, autistics for this reason, you can change society so that it won't act that way to autistic. Autistics have as much right as anyone to procreate.
Like jagatai wrote in this thread, "All children will be bullied and harassed. NTs don't get a free ride just because they fit in better than Aspises. They may not be bullied over the same things, but many are still bullied." You can't tell when you have a child how people will react to him/her.


Autism is a difference. A neutral difference. We are not better or worse than NTs/non-autisitcs.
Abnormal just means not normal. We are not normal but there's nothing wrong with that.
Autism might or might not come with disabilities. Even if we are disabled, is there anything wrong with being disabled?

Also, black people shouldn't have children. All black people should be sterilized because their children will suffer prejudice.

You propose that I not have children because they could (not will, but could) be on the spectrum (I don't care about the distinctions between diagnoses), with a neurological abnormality shared by Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson.

You say we're disabled when the evidence shows that we have above-average memory and the ability to hyperfocus and become an expert at one particular subject. You say we're disabled (defective, even) for not needing constant social contact, a trait which allows us to work more and waste less time.

I have a final point, but I need to ask Godwin whether making it means I lose.

It's better to be abnormal, than it is to be a murder victim.

Non-white people shouldn't procreate because of racism, poor people shouldn't procreate because they don't have enough money, people with a genetic illness anywhere in their family line shouldn't procreate because they might pass it on... You're going to have a very depopulated world following your line of logic, CymbalMonkey.

Perfect people shouldn't procreate lest they bring bigots into the world!

...Still need to ask Godwin about that other comment.

Neither of my brothers have Aspergers and they cannot believe the bullying I went thru. My second brother is just 2 years younger than me and was usually with me when some of the bullying happened and he could not figure why I was the only one in the group always picked on.

I would not create a life just so they could go thru what I did. I still feel anxiety over things that happened over thirty years ago. I agree with what someone else said here about a person with Aspergers letting their partner know about their Aspergers and how Aspergers may be geneticly passed to their future children. If they could do gene therapy in the womb to prevent Aspergers to create an NT child then I would not hesitate to have a kid. Its always better to fit in why do you think so many people with Aspergers develope ways to look and act normal.

Well, that's just one way of looking at it, your way, and some people might say it's the way of the depressed. Let's say you grow up in the best of circumstances, with supportive, nuturing people who love you and wish only for you to prosper. You don't get harrassed or bullied. There's no jealous jerk around to hound you when you make your unique discoveries and have knowledge that no one else has. People continuously pat you on the back for it. You are encouraged to go to college after making all 'A's in high school because the teachers have confidence in you and this, in turn, makes you want to give your 200% instead of just 100, because you know it will be appreciated.
You go on to college where it's expected you will do very well, and since it is expected, you do!
Just like any golden child, you do remarkably well, just like everyone knew you would.
This could be the reality of many with autism. It just takes the right upbringing and a positive environment to bring out the best in us. We are fully capable in so many ways, perhaps in more ways than most, so, why not have kids if you want? Wouldn't you want more who are successful at life.
Your view tends to be one sided with the assumption that success is impossible.

Bullying as others have stated isn't exclusive to aspies, NTs, or anyone else. And just because someone has Aspergers, etc doesn't necessaily mean that their children will have it, my son and myself are proof of that.
Why does this sound like yet another teenage "I hate being an aspie and the rest of the world because (say it with me folks!) no one understands me!" tirade?

Do teenagers say that? Oh. How truly odd. Why should teenage wangst extend to hoping no one like you is ever born again?

...That would explain a lot.