Asperger's & dyscalculia?

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Just this week I learned that there is such a thing as dyscalculia (basically dyslexia with numbers). As soon as I discovered it I felt the same sense of immediate relief I felt when I discovered AS. It explains why I had such trouble with math when I was in school and why I've had such trouble with finances in recent times. Most aspies are good at math, and like most of you, I have the mind for it but numbers just don't translate in my mind the same as yours. The arts and social sciences have been a dominant obsession of mine for as long as I can remember.

When looking for an address, I can never remember if it's 706 or 760 or 607 or 670...or maybe it's 790 or 970. Time and dates elude me. When asked to read a long number to someone I've occasionally added numbers that simply aren't there at all or mix up the order. The best solution I have for reading a number correctly is to quickly read it over and over in my head as many times as possible, stalling for as long as I can before I have to speak up and recite what I've been rehearsing secretly.

I'm 28 and can't help but feel a bit cheated by the education and mental health professions for not alerting me of these things sooner to help me begin to cope earlier in life. Does anyone else feel this way regarding your diagnosis, or lack thereof?

If there's anyone else here with both of these conditions and experiences they'd like to share or helpful ideas for coping, I'd love to hear them. Also, I'd like to open this up to any discussion of dual-diagnoses.

Confusedly, yours
-knowmadic

Dyscalculia is a specific learning disability, and yeah, specific learning disabilities are common on the spectrum. But the idea that "most Aspies are good at math" is not actually true, though. We have a few math specialists, of course; but in general, we are no more likely to be good at math than the average joe. In general on the autism spectrum there is more variation; typical people tend toward the average. We may have more talented people and more dyscalculaic people, but the learning disabilities and the talents average out, and we're about as good at math, on average, as the average.

Do you have someone else in your household you can swap chores with in exchange for getting them to do the budgeting? And don't be ashamed to use a calculator... carry a little one in your bag.

Specific learning disabilities that aren't really obvious are often missed. You're twenty-eight, too; when you were a kid, learning disabilities weren't as well-known. (I'm twenty-seven and didn't know dyslexia even existed until I was sixteen or so.) So you're in the same boat as many adults, trying to find workarounds and wishing that the school system had known when you were little.

Managing a budget has more to do with common sense and personal organisation than maths skills. As long as you know how to add and subtract, divide and multiply, you shouldn't have too many problems. All the calculus in the world won't help you if you're not willing to amend your spending habits.

I have a number processing disorder, it's not dyscalculia per se but a similar, related disorder. I can do simple math like adding and subtracting, and I can use a simple calculator, figure a budget, etc, but I can't do higher level math from algebra on up. I never passed algebra in HS and it took me multiple tries to get it right in college. I probably could have gone to a big university if not for the higher math processing issue. The weird thing is, I'm really good with computers but not with math, which baffled my college profs.

I read about this a little while ago and I am curious if I have it myself. I can't tell left from right. I started wearing a ring on one hand in HS to differentiate.

I can't read maps or remember telephone numbers or addresses.

In HS and college I literally felt that Math was another language, an alien language. I just couldn't grasp it. I wondered what the heck was wrong with me since I got As and Bs in every other subject and then there was that D in Math.

Yeah and that's why I have so much trouble with basic math. I can't keep the number straight and can't memorise the multiclipation tables to save my life. If I am allowed to use a calculator (just to add things up and solve the multliplication problem parts of the problem) I am a whiz at algebra. I just hope they let me use one on my MCAT. Everytime someone brings up the myth that all people with AS are math geniuses and believes it, I want to strangle them.

Are you able to follow a moderately complex argument expressed in verbal (non-mathematical) form? I am asking the question to see if you trouble is following the logic or grasping the process of abstraction that is implicit in mathematical applications.

ruveyn

I've been trying to learn the multiplication table, but I think I give up because I can't memorize them and keep them straight in my head.

I don't have a dx of dyscalculia but I can relate to it so, how do they treat dyscalculia? Is there anyway to get around mixing the symbols up or a way to properly memorize them? I know my working memory is below average though, so that might just be the problem.

Does sucking at calculus but being able to do basic algebra and math as quick as a calculator count as dyscalculia? If not, then no I guess hope not

That's kind of insulting, since Pezar's post was composed clearly and articulately and demonstrates a better than average IQ. For someone to work well with computers, they have to be able to follow logic sequences.

I have this problem exactly - basic math not an issue, addition, subtraction, multiplication - NP...long division becomes a chore, as do fractions, then when you start writing out series' of numbers like cuneiform scribbling, and tossing alphabetic characters into the mix, no less - my brain simply shuts down. Not because I don't understand the problem - give it to me as something I can visualize and I'll get the correct answer most of the time, though it won't be by the algebra teacher's methods.

To my brain, algebraic methods defy logic the instant they start substituting letters for numbers. Letters represent vocal sounds, not amounts - there's a whole separate set of characters for that and they don't go together. When that insanity starts, my brain just refuses to look - its very nearly a physical aversion - not because I'm too stupid to see it, more like I just involuntarily refuse to acknowledge the information in that form.

Bad enough that the symbol for multiplication is an X. Must we go completely insane?

I had a LOT of troubles memorizing the multiplication table as a kid. As for treatment, there is one called a "calculator".

I self diagnosed with both dyscalculia and dyslexia. I also have AS.

Yeah, but having to depend on a calculator for all basic math kind of sucks. I want to get a GED and I believe there is a section on mental math where a calculator is not allowed.

Consider assigning a color, shape, sound, texture, or even a word to each of the ten digits used to represent numbers. This strategy is often employed by mentalists when performing feats of memory, or for memorizing telephone numbers, bank acct. numbers, etc.

If you have synesthesia (not uncommon in people on the spectrum), you may already do this or find it easier to do. But if the digits or other symbols (the "x" in multiplication) are troublesome, build an association you can work with comfortably and quickly. That plus a little practice may help resolve the problem.

I felt the same way when I found dyscalcula online. I can do simple math but double and triple digits forget it I need a calculator algebra don't get it. I read price totals wrong all the time like 39 as.93 but I have upcs memorized and some license plates it drives me nuts.

Hi This is my first post here, so if there is a introduction thread that I should have posted in first, I am sorry.
But after spending ~30 mins trying to sign-up, then another 25 odd mins trying to calm down enough to stop shaking, I couldn't be bothered. Plus, I might
have lost this thread in the whole process, and this thread, is why I got the courage to sign-up, well more like forced myself to.
Please bare with me as I have a learning difference that messes up what I am trying to say, so I end up kinda long winded at times.
Sorry in advance if this post gets long.

Hi.. I do not know if I have AS, I suspect that there is a chance that I do. Or all my other diagnoses just add up to be very closely related to AS.
I really have no clue, that is why I am here, because at this stage of my life, I can't try hiding things anymore, or finding other copying mechanisms.
I need to know.
However, I do have multi-diagnoses and one of them is Dyscalculia. I received my diagnoses in May of this year.
My other diagnosis are, Dyslexia, ADD, Dysnomia (for those that have never heard of this, it is like perpetual tip of the tongue, when yiou can't retreive the
word you want to use, you end up having to get wordier - it sucks, when you really would rather just do bulleted list) and finally bi-polar.

If you have not had an Psycho-Educational Assessment completed, I strongly suggest that you look into having one done. It may or may not help, but it is worth a try. If you do have it done, pay no attention really to the results 'over-all' of the IQ test. Because if you do have Dyscalculia, chances are your IQ, will be lower in that area, but could be extremly high in other areas - that is just one of the ridiculous things about IQ test.



Williard, thank you for this response, right from 'Thats kind of', right down to 'Must we go completely insane?' you pretty much described me.
Except, I will argue that the calculations they expect me to do are ludicrous, If I can get the correct answer, and generally with fewer calculations,
what does it matter if my formulas and methods look nothing like the beautifully calculated and laid out answer and work from their manuals?
It shouldn't, at all. But unfortunately, in most cases it does.

@ruveyn Thought I would give you a bit more to think about, along with what Williard already has. Also, to maybe answer your question and as I have been diagnosed with dyscalculia, which as I said, can lower a persons IQ in some areas, you may be interested to know what my learning strengths are. Fluid/abstract/spatial reasoning, verbal memory, reading comprehension and written expression are my higher strengths. With two of my reasoning strengths being in the superior end of the IQ test and one being higher, with everything else ranked as above average, can you see that logic? It doesn't work for me.
Logic is used to explain/describe reasoning. But, some things, like Williard said about algebra, defy logic, we may never know. I just know that, if I am given the time and allowed to do maths my way, I can do most of it. I need extra time, a calculator and piles of paper, but it can be done.
My grades in accounting and business prove that, then there is my grades from my GED, which I had to receive to attend school out of the country.
None of this was easy, but it can be done and I received the final results before my dyscalculia and other lds.



I studied hard for about 2.5 months to get my GED, I was ill each time I went in to write a section of it. There is no shame in using a calculator to do any maths. There is a section on 'mental maths', however, before you apply to sit the exams, contact them and see what you need for LD supports. I do not know if you are in the US or Canada, but both countries have supports for LDs. I was able to get mine because of the ADD I had been diagnosed as having. About a month after the exams, I received my assessment for the dyscalculia. I never received my grade 12, but had returned to college as an adult, so I did not need my grade 12. However, I applied to school in another country and needed my grade 12 or GED. Aside from the accounting and business at college, it had been about 25 years since I was in school. A lot has changed since then, college was nothing compared to the GED, because I had to try
and learn things that made no sense, like algebra and for some reason, a bunch of words and grammar have been changed here.

For me, knowing one way to spell a word for 30+ years, then being told that was incorrect now, is kind of like handing a person an apple, they know it is an apple, but they are being told it is an orange. I could not argue this if I got a word marked incorrectly in an exam, I just had to hope that I kept consistent and that the examinar knew both spellings of the words.

Those are the hardest parts I came across, if you are able to have supports, you could get extra time to write the exams, more time between the exams and a calculator for both parts of the maths. Also, check to see if they have any booster programmes for the GED where you live. There is a lot of help available for it, it is just finding it.

Anyway, sorry all for the length of this and I hope it made sense..