"Beauty" as a Form of Rigid Thinking?

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This may sound like a strange question.....

But, I guess the usual stereotype that I've read about AS women is that they are generally not very interested or "bothered' about their own personal appearance; for instance, choosing not to wear makeup, fix their hair, etc. I seem to be completely the opposite, and it suddenly occurred to me yesterday- while reading a thread in another section written by an AS man (who seemed to think that all AS women had to do to have relationship success was "look pretty")- that I am so thoroughly fixed in this idea that I have to be beautiful in order to be accepted, that it seems like a form of rigid thinking: i.e., I know logically now that it doesn't make very much sense, but it seems to be a compulsion that I can't stop. It first started years ago because I felt rejected, and our society (as well as individual people I knew) are always telling us that the way to find a boyfriend is by passively just "being beautiful". If that didn't work, I would think "Ok, I have to be even more beautiful". I have basically outgrown this by now, but, like I said, I seem to be stuck, and I can't change this compulsion. I just notice that most women I see around me seem to be much more comfortable in their own skin.

Does anyone else have this, or any related problem?

I know there are a number of women with AS out there who are fashion conscious. Whether this is acquired the same way other women though, or through observation and analysis, I don't know.

I have definitely made attempts to better my image these past few years but I still think I deviate a bit from the norm.

Here is the issue with "pretty". We all know pretty is and can still disagree on what pretty is. What I mean by that, there is pretty as in what the media tells you should be pretty, pretty as in what your culture tells you should be pretty, and pretty as in people you find aesthetically pleasing for whatever reason.

I live in a very image conscious area of Southern California where little dogs are fashion accessories.Many of the women wear tight jeans, stillettos and too much makeup like it's a uniform, topped off with designer sun glasses.

They think this is pretty. My friend, who is a man, thinks any guy who would date girls who dress like this is crazy.

My favorite clothes are jeans and oversized T shirts, this is what I wore in high school an my twenties.
In my early thirties I was unhappy about the way certain people treated me, so I lost weight, started exercising and went through a complete make over.
Now I wear only clothes that are my size and are a good fit, nice tops, skinny jeans and boots , feminine dresses, mainly ballerina shoes, I don't like heels but wear them sometimes. I also learned through trial and error what make up and skin products to use and watched tutorials on YouTube. I have personal top lists for the best foundation, mascara and lip gloss.

I cannot tell I if I am prettier, but the difference my makeover made was unbelievable. People started to accept my opinion, listen to me more carefully and react to me in a completely different way. It didn't make me happier, it made me more angry. I was the same person, had the same thoughts and suddenly I was given more respect for the reason of being skinny and trendy?
How illogical is this?!
I accepted it as a fact of life though and just kept going.
Now I can give competent advice on make up and hair care, dieting and fitness, not because it interests me, because I see it as a strategy, a set of tools to get people to listen to me.
Oh, yes, and somewhere in the process I got obsessed with Boot camp training, I will never give it up, it is terrific!

Same here.



Yes, this is BEYOND illogical! When I started dressing "better," the same thing happened. To this day, I can't understand why people are so shallow.

However,



Let me toss this one out to all of you: When I dressed the way I used to, people thought I must have "low self-esteem" because I "didn't care enough" about my appearance to look better. In my opinion, it was just the opposite--I felt that my self-esteem was HIGHER than most people's because I didn't think I had to look a certain way to be accepted.

I still feel that way but...what the hell, I just think of it as a type of social experiment.

Perhaps that why my GF used to rebel against her beauty,dressing as ugly as she could,etc... ,she is at her forties and told me that this is the first time she is really feeling like dressing nice and all that crap and it maybe because i never really cared or noticed beauty the way most men or people do, I think it is an AS thing because the many years ago i was living with another AS women who was amazingly beautiful but was also dressed like a bum and behaved like a truck driver.
I think i can understand that or at least relate to that to some extent as i,like many autistics ,also considered beautiful be the general society and it made me experienced some of the frustrations and double standards that stem from the shallow way most ppl get beauty,
most people even won't notice how stupid and crazy they act when facing beauty,
many of society wrongs are exposed in the face of beauty so most people can not handle it sanely.

This is so strange because I was the same way and now feel the opposite. I think it really isolated me in many ways. I would worry if someone would come over and I didn't have makeup on. When it came to camping trips or getting out and about amongst a group of people, I'd spend hours trying to fix my hair and apply makeup carefully while everyone else was just enjoying their morning hiking, talking, or doing something fun. It was a nightmare for me, I felt like it was a job or duty even though no one was telling me to do it. I remember though back in highschool how much I was made fun of for not wearing "the right clothes" and being ugly. I think that may have stemmed from it.

Now it isn't that I don't like makeup or not want to wear it, I just don't feel like it. Everytime I wear makeup I'm uncomfortable. When it comes to clothes, I prefer comfort over aesthetics. I never could get use to wearing tight jeans and shirts that were too revealing for me. It's as if a huge burden has been lifted off my shoulders. Not sure what caused this change. I still get nasty stairs by some people if I'm in a place like park avenue. I do think our society is pretty bias when it comes to beauty/conformed beauty over personality. Kind of sad really. Also I really can't afford the effort applied to beauty these days. Affording a hairstylist let alone is too expensive.

I completely agree.

For years, my mom tried to (gently) convince me to dress a little "better." I would have none of it, saying "why does it matter?" Indeed, by high school I was mostly ignored (which was fine by me) and the few male friends I had didn't seem to care one way or another (or were nice enough not to say anything).

In college/university, people were very eclectic. Again, no one cared what I wore.

It was actually my bf who insisted on taking me shopping one day (yes, he paid for all of it ). I now own three pairs of "tight" jeans and some form-fitting tops. It took me a while to get used to the way I looked/felt in them.

I don't wear them all the time. When I do, I look/feel different outwardly, but inwardly I'm still me.

I still don't like makeup either--it just feels oily. The furthest I'll go is light lipstick over gloss.

There are still days when I grab the oversized T-shirt and loose-fitting jeans, tie my hair back (wearing it down doesn't work too well now--too humid) and just feel "comfortable."

You're absolutely right about society's "bias." I think that I refused to consider "dressing up" for a long time as a subtle form of rebellion against this. Granted, you can only take this so far--I also need to clean up "professionally" for job interviews (slacks instead of tight jeans, professional-looking blouses).

I've learned to look upon all this as wearing different types of "disguises." They in no way diminish or change who I am. It's taken me a long time to realize this.

But, yes, comfort and convenience still matter a LOT.

Ok, I can see I didn't really specify what I meant,,,,,this is my fault, sorry. (I was trying to make my original post short enough so it wouldn't be too overwhelming or boring). I am not particularly "fashion conscious"; it is basically impossible for me to wear tight jeans! In fact, jeans of any kind feel uncomfortable for me- (unless it's a very soft material). I don't follow any particular fashion because my sensory issues make that too difficult- besides, I don't care too much- however, I am highly sensitive as to how clothes look on my body. It's very important for me to get the right "line', if that makes any sense. I don't wear anything that makes me look remotely fat, or that makes me appear shorter. Another reason I don't follow fashion is that fashions constantly change, and the original idea of what "looks good" is so ingrained in my head that I can't change it. (Example- when I was a teenager and in my early 20s, very long legs were important. Nowadays, I notice people wear clothes that seem to shorten the legs, accentuate the waist area and put focus on the stomach; whereas when I was young, the stomach was hidden and had to be always flat. I'm paranoid about my stomach always looking flat). This is why I wonder if this is some form of rigid thinking.

I do wear makeup regularly (just eye makeup, mascara, etc). I can be quite ritualistic about this. I put makeup on even when I plan to stay in all day. It's almost as if I have to be "presentable" to myself!

Another problem I've had is that sometimes I've decided a certain part of my body is not quite right, and so I hide it. Example: when I was a teenager, I didn't like my neck, so I wore loose turtle necks ALL the time. This got a little better sometime in my 20s and 30s, and I only wore turtle necks sometimes, but I started wearing a necklace (a choker) all the time: I literally never took it off, I even slept in it! When one necklace wore down, I had another one already waiting. In terms of fashion or society, I realized rationally that there was nothing actually wrong with my neck- (it's rather long, but that was actually good for my career as a ballet dancer. The whole thing just wasn't rational). It's only rather recently that I've finally gotten used to wearing different clothes that show my neck and upper chest area. But unfortunately, this has been replaced by other "body taboos".

So this was the kind of stuff I was basically wondering about. Not exactly "fashion" stuff, but maybe my own interpretation of this beauty craze of our society???

IMO, you're right about this "beauty craze." Fashions DO change all the time, so how can anyone be expected to keep up unless their Bible is Cosmo Magazine?

It sounds to me (and maybe I'm reading this wrong here--sorry in advance if I am) that you're trying very hard to look "right," fashion-wise, in order to be...well, maybe not necessarily "accepted," but to not stick out in a negative way.

If you're okay with doing this, then there's nothing wrong with it. However, if it starts to feel like it's taking over other aspects of your life, then you need to stop, take a step back and really ask yourself "why" you're doing this.

Again, if I completely misinterpreted what you're saying, I apologize. I keep coming back to this thread because the whole notion of what society deems "acceptable" in terms of fashion, appearances, etc., has always been a "pet peeve" of sorts.

i guess i am quite bothered about my appearance. not because im vain, but i feel very self conscious and, well, ugly so i try to compensate for this. and in the back of my head i know everything is easier for beautiful people, as crappy as that is.
although sometimes im the total opposite and avoid trying to dress myself up because in my mind i feel like at least then i have an excuse for looking bad- because i havent tried. and i also worry people will look at me and think 'why did she bother making an effort,she still looks a state' and that makes me selfconscious

To be honest, I'm not totally sure *who* I'm doing this for anymore. Am I trying to be accepted by society, or am I trying to be accepted by myself? I had a similar episode once before, when I was a workaholic. I used to work so hard, trying to "prove" something, because I guess I thought I would be more accepted by my parents, or by other people in general. This pattern went on for so long, that I guess it became like a habit. After working myself into the ground, and finally becoming sick, I asked myself what was I trying to prove? And to whom was I trying to prove it to? I realized I had outgrown the situation with my parents, I no longer needed to prove anything. The only person I seemed to be aiming to "prove something to" was myself!



I'm not sure if I'm okay with it or not. On the one hand, it's so hard wired at this point, I'm just used to it. On the other hand, there are times when I wish I could just relax about it more. I guess it could be a form of addiction. I notice I tend to have higher standards in judging myself than I do judging other people. I'm not sure if this is due to lack of confidence after years of bullying or rejection, or if it's just a part of my personality?



It's not taking over other aspects of my life, it's just that it seems so "controlled". It's also anxiety producing at times. I guess I envy people who don't have this obsession.



Odd as it may sound under the circumstances, it's a "pet peeve" of mine too!

I'm half and half.

When I'm at home, I won't even brush my hair if I am not planning on going anywhere that day. I'll just shower and call it a day. I'll then wear my frumpy pyjamas around the house.

If I am going out, then I'll put on make-up, wear something nice, etc. Unless I'm just running to the grocery store or something, then I'll just throw on whatever I can find, brush my hair and go grab what I need at the store. It just depends with me.

I like looking pretty, though!

I used to like to wear baggy shirts, pants and boots.
But I was always caught somewhere wanting attention, and fitting in. I went through an entire month of my sophomore year scouring through websites and magazines to find what I 'could' wear. I spent a lot of my birthday and christmas savings on new clothes and beauty products. Like frizz control, hair straightener and a new wardrobe. So all my tweety shirts and boy jeans got tossed.
I liked fitting in, and I also liked the perks of being noticed.

I went through a period like this years ago. I assumed that if I had to attend some event (or even just during usual daily activities), I had to look good because I equated it with being sociable. I was clueless that actual social skills were needed to be sociable. I would prepare myself, then just sit around alone and wonder why socialising wasn't happening.

I also had and have many body taboos and obsess over the correct clothing to conceal them. One time, I wore a choker too when I got self-conscious about my neck. It was on a week-long holiday and I also wore it in bed.

I really did obsess about certain areas. My innate fixation on detail and perfectionistic tendencies were evident. I am much more relaxed now older and dress like a male.

Because no one told you. It wasn't your fault. Sometimes these things have to be learned.



That's good. When I find myself worrying too much about such things (usually for job interviews and such) I get really annoyed--both at myself and at the ways of the world regarding such things.

I like your avatar btw.

It was like this for me too: but mostly with opposite- sex- socializing. I thought if I looked good enough, I would be approached and socializing would "happen". If no one wanted to talk to me, I must not look good enough. Of course, when I asked some friends why no one was approaching me, they said the most important thing for men to be interested was that I had to "look good". I think these ideas are where my whole mindset originated.

I only learned about non-verbal signals much later in life, and from books.