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Repent
Sea Gull
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24 Jul 2010, 11:13 pm

I have an overwhelming feeling of discrimination because of my invisible disablity. My life has been very hard, filled with bullying, hatred, and disappointment. I've never been able to understand why people hate those who are different from the majority. Why do people discriminate against blacks, Jews, homosexuals, or people who are handicapped with a physical or mental handicap?

I saw an article recently, that offensively relates that 'Austistic people reproduce too much':

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/52497

What is with the hate the minority crowd? Isn't life better all around for everyone when you accept diversity? Why pick on the little guy, in fact, why place blame at all; what does placing blame accomplish?

I wish everyone health, happiness and prosperity. I believe in forgiveness and compassion. I believe the world would be a better place for all if these values were shared and reinforced. Hate only makes the life more difficult for everyone.


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Last edited by Repent on 25 Jul 2010, 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

conundrum
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24 Jul 2010, 11:42 pm

The article referenced ASD's twice:

Quote:
How is it that a mere infant, incapable of even parsing the sentence "I am feeling very angry right now!" is nevertheless able to sense anger? To an Asperger Syndrome sufferer such as Doctor Obvious, this appears as a great mystery.


I saw this as a bit snide--but then, I can't even tell if the article wasn't a partial satire anyway.

Quote:
As far as robotic technology, artificial intelligence and the like, all we can do is breed autistic savants. Lock some high-functioning autistic people in a room with some expensive computer equipment, and eventually they manage to reproduce, electronically if not biologically.


Okay, also a bit snide and stereotypical, but it did not even imply that "Autistic people reproduce too much" biologically speaking--the impression I got was that autistic people understand technology so well that, given enough time and the right equipment, they could create artificial intelligence better than anyone else.

I admit, it was worded poorly--so much so that I still can't figure out what the point of this article was supposed to be in the first place. :shrug: Was it saying that we don't REALLY know what we want any more?

What do you all think?


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Molecular_Biologist
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25 Jul 2010, 1:30 am

I think its a sad part of human nature to shun and hate those with disabilities.

Back in the caveman days when resources were scarce, it was probably a survival advantage to ostracize and remove the defectives from the tribe so that the rest would be stronger.

Bullying is instinctual human behavior.



Repent
Sea Gull
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25 Jul 2010, 2:11 am

Quote:
Okay, also a bit snide and stereotypical, but it did not even imply that "Autistic people reproduce too much" biologically speaking--the impression I got was that autistic people understand technology so well that, given enough time and the right equipment, they could create artificial intelligence better than anyone else.


No, I took this as 'hate literature' by someone who is obviously intolerant to the handicapped. Dmitry Orlov publishes a monthly article about 'Why the world/ economy/ civilization is about to collapse'. Other authors on the site energy bulletin are more polite, and more interesting, but the point being is that his monthly article is read by thousands of people. In this one he expoused his opinions of people who have ASD to all these thousands of readers in the most hateful and in your words 'Snide' way of speaking. The damage is done. Hate and intolerance rein supreme

http://www.energybulletin.net/authors/Dmitry+Orlov


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Poppycocteau
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25 Jul 2010, 5:02 am

Quote:
As far as robotic technology, artificial intelligence and the like, all we can do is breed autistic savants. Lock some high-functioning autistic people in a room with some expensive computer equipment, and eventually they manage to reproduce, electronically if not biologically.


This is not only snide and mean-spirited, but ill-informed. I am Autistic and I don't know anything at all about computers, or any other sorts of technology. Computers bore me greatly unless I can use them to look at websites . . . and even then I am entirely ignorant of how they work.

As for bullying, I have never really questioned it . . . it matches my overall impression that people simply aren't very nice. It does always seem to be the rather dense people to whom popularity and fashion and so forth are important who are the bullies, though.


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peterd
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26 Jul 2010, 6:10 am

I wonder - does your assertion that computers bore you greatly make them go away?

Oh, it doesn't. OK. So where does the argument go next?



conundrum
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26 Jul 2010, 12:13 pm

Repent wrote:
I saw an article recently, that offensively relates that 'Austistic people reproduce too much':

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/52497


I agree that this writer is a jerk. I agree that he is completely ignorant about ASD's. I also agree that he can't write an English sentence to save his life. :roll:

However, he did not say that "Autistic people reproduce too much," nor did he even imply it.

Again:

Quote:
How is it that a mere infant, incapable of even parsing the sentence "I am feeling very angry right now!" is nevertheless able to sense anger? To an Asperger Syndrome sufferer such as Doctor Obvious, this appears as a great mystery.


and:

Quote:
As far as robotic technology, artificial intelligence and the like, all we can do is breed autistic savants. Lock some high-functioning autistic people in a room with some expensive computer equipment, and eventually they manage to reproduce, electronically if not biologically.


Mean-spirited, ignorant, incorrect, stereotypical--yes on all counts. He makes generalizations that may indeed perpetuate negative attitudes about autism. Also, his use of the word "breed"-- :evil:

HOWEVER, nowhere did he say that people with autism reproduce "too much."

I am not defending him by any means, please understand that.

All I am saying is: if one is going to criticize something someone said/wrote, please be sure that it's an accurate criticism so one's own arguments carry weight.

That's all. If this offends the OP or anyone else, I apologize.


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Repent
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26 Jul 2010, 1:19 pm

Ok, he did not specifically used the phrase 'Autistics reproduce too much'. However, as I mentioned before Dmitry Orlov publishes a monthy article, and wrote the best seller non-fiction book 'Re-inventing collapse'. He concerns himself and his articles about the causes and consequences of economic, social, and political collapse.

My reading of the article that I posted in my original post above, would suggest that he 'BLAMES' autistics for many cultural and social problems related to collapse. My reading, having read many of his other articles, is that he hates the fact that autistics and others with disablitities exist at all- we're ruining the world for him.

I apologize if I read too much into this article about his motives than he actually said. Many people tell me I'm the most paranoid person they know. I have learned through the school of hard knocks to be forever on guard against bullying and harassment, with the penalty that I am perceived as being paranoid.

I've been 'Naive' and people have exploited me for this. I've been considered 'Rude' and I've been ostracized as a result. I've demonstrated 'Poor judgement' and been removed from decision making capacity in the workforce. I have a dozen other faults related to having Asperger's and I have been used and manipulated because all of them. I feel 'shut out' of many of life's avenues. NT's don't appreciate that I can't function in the same way they can and they tell me to just 'Grow up', as if 39 years of pain haven't made me grown up already.

Most people seem to view life through Rose coloured glasses, I, on the other hand, view life through a filter of bitter cyncism and suspicion. Being paranoid is the only way I've found that I can continue to function at all given the hardships and disappointments in my life, as well as to cope with the relentless hatred of others.


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conundrum
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26 Jul 2010, 2:18 pm

Repent wrote:
My reading of the article that I posted in my original post above, would suggest that he 'BLAMES' autistics for many cultural and social problems related to collapse. My reading, having read many of his other articles, is that he hates the fact that autistics and others with disablitities exist at all- we're ruining the world for him.


Okay, I can see how you might draw that conclusion. Like I said, IMO the man can't write a coherent English sentence, so I'm personally dismissing him as too ignorant to pay much attention to. Granted, that doesn't mean other people don't read his stuff and take it to heart. :roll:

Repent wrote:
I apologize if I read too much into this article about his motives than he actually said. Many people tell me I'm the most paranoid person they know. I have learned through the school of hard knocks to be forever on guard against bullying and harassment, with the penalty that I am perceived as being paranoid.

I've been 'Naive' and people have exploited me for this. I've been considered 'Rude' and I've been ostracized as a result. I've demonstrated 'Poor judgement' and been removed from decision making capacity in the workforce. I have a dozen other faults related to having Asperger's and I have been used and manipulated because all of them. I feel 'shut out' of many of life's avenues. NT's don't appreciate that I can't function in the same way they can and they tell me to just 'Grow up', as if 39 years of pain haven't made me grown up already.

Most people seem to view life through Rose coloured glasses, I, on the other hand, view life through a filter of bitter cyncism and suspicion. Being paranoid is the only way I've found that I can continue to function at all given the hardships and disappointments in my life, as well as to cope with the relentless hatred of others.


I'm glad you understand that I was not trying to attack you personally. I am truly sorry that you've had to go/are still going through that kind of crap. :(

The way the world is can s**k.

P.S. Most people who say "grow up" have not done so themselves, nor will they ever. :x


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FreeSpirit2000
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29 Jul 2010, 9:54 pm

First of all, all you guys need to do is to force yourselves to understand social communication as well as possible and avoid as many stressful situations as possible. If you have to deal with stressful situations, know when and how to open your mouth, and keep your cool at all times. Make sure you know how to think before you say anything as well. Plus, don't give this impression to others that you are easy to manipulate especially. Just be yourself, understand how to communicate with others, be patient, watch your tone of voice and don't give people an impression that you are venerable to bully. I had poor social skills in the past and no one picks on me at all ever since I got into college.



FreeSpirit2000
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29 Jul 2010, 10:02 pm

Also, don't be too open about your "D-word" related issues, because if you talk about it too much, and excuse your behavior because your AS issues, then that will attract more bullying then. I know someone who did that and people started to dislike him just because of those issues. Come on, I have heard of people with Down Syndrome attending Harvard and I heard people with no legs and arms doing 30-mile triathlons.



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10 Aug 2010, 12:39 pm

i agree that there sometimes is an instinctual aversion in neurotypicals. not all of them; a few are highly compassionate. but this issue, more than most (i guess you would have to compare a severe physical deformity to incite the same depths of cruelty perhaps) makes it easy to see us as an "un-person". someone whose feelings don't matter.

my own thoughts on reform include keeping the size of classes very small & starting human rights education as early as math & english.

interestingly (to me now), i recall when i was growing up meeting someone who struck me as uncannily "mechanical". i wasn't unkind, but puzzled. i think now, as asperger perceiving someone farther down the spectrum, this may have been my only opportunity to understand exactly how i would be perceived by someone without it.

but i was too young for it to do me any good.

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spacecadetdave
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11 Sep 2010, 1:39 pm

I think you have all misunderstood this article and the passage in question in particular. It was not an attack on autistics at all. HFA's were being used in an analogy which didn;t particularly work, but how you got from the passage in quesiton to the assumption that the writer thought that autistics shouldn't have children is way beyond me.

Lock a load of HFAs in a room with a lot of computer equipment (OK, assuming it's the engineer-techno-nerd strain of HFAs) and sure enough you will see a proliferation of computer reproduction. I think that is what the guy was trying to say.

And as someone who once replaced the heating element of a tropical fish tank with the cooling element of a working liquid cooled minicomputer processor (for the simple reason that they were in the same room AND I could!) I know exactly what the guy means.



Cicero
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10 Oct 2010, 8:13 pm

I think its human instinct to shun those who are different--from the cave dwelling days when survival was a constant struggle.

We also have compassion and we emphasize that as well. My theory explains to me why kids are more cruel--they haven't been socialised to get past their instincts to compassion. I take no pleasure in admitting I was no better at that age.

Now thats all fine and good, but it still hurts horribly when someobody I have done nothing to despises me. The world is unfair, but we just have to deal with it.

And has been pointed out HFAs do have many advantages in a complex world needing knowledge workers. I have been able to get a productive job with computers while my most fearsome bully has been to prison a couple of times due to drug crime.



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10 Oct 2010, 8:46 pm

Orlov is Russian-his big spiel is that the USA will collapse in a similar manner to the old USSR, and he has quite a following from that premise. One thing you've got to understand about Russian society, it's very social darwinistic, and very manichean, and VERY intolerant of ANYBODY outside the norm. Anybody who is "disabled" or "odd" or out of place is seen by Russian society to be a nail to be hammered into place by force. The disabled are officially treated as unpersons in Russia, by all levels of society, and that is accepted as necessary in Russia.

Russia has had a rough go of it over the centuries, from famines and brutal kings to manmade famines and brutal communist apparatchiks. The end result is a society that sees ANY slight deviation from the norm to be stamped out in the name of social cohesion. So that's where this guy is coming from.

If you read over his stuff, it's full of praise for Mother Russia and snide condescension of Americans. There is reason to believe that Orlov and the Russian conspiracists such as Russia Today satellite TV are funded by the Putin govt as a psychological war against America, similar to what we did to them during the Cold War. Russia is still run by old KGB hands, and they still see America and Russia as eternal enemies. They see us down for the count, and are having plenty of fun kicking us, since we didn't lift a finger as the USSR disintegrated. This is their revenge. So, that's the background here.

I have a hard time taking anything out of Russia seriously, since the assumption is automatically that Putin and his FSB buddies are kicking us again. Modern Russia is a mafia society, much like 19th century Italy (and parts of Italy today). They run on a mafia mentality. They don't care who they hurt, just as long as Russia comes out on top in the end. One slight means that whole bloodlines are wiped out.



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11 Oct 2010, 2:20 am

Repent wrote:
I have an overwhelming feeling of discrimination because of my invisible disablity. My life has been very hard, filled with bullying, hatred, and disappointment. I've never been able to understand why people hate those who are different from the majority. Why do people discriminate against blacks, Jews, homosexuals, or people who are handicapped with a physical or mental handicap?

I saw an article recently, that offensively relates that 'Austistic people reproduce too much':

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/52497

What is with the hate the minority crowd? Isn't life better all around for everyone when you accept diversity? Why pick on the little guy, in fact, why place blame at all; what does placing blame accomplish?

I wish everyone health, happiness and prosperity. I believe in forgiveness and compassion. I believe the world would be a better place for all if these values were shared and reinforced. Hate only makes the life more difficult for everyone.


Several reasons. Most of them boiling down to the fact that we don't respond to body language. That is scaring people.

That is prevalent amongst nearly all animals. Some years ago, I saw Animal Planet. The scientists sent a robot shark into a coral reef. A real shark tried to play with the robot. When it didn't get any response, it teared the robot shark apart.