Secularization enables the growth of Islam.

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iamnotaparakeet
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28 Aug 2010, 10:12 am

While secular leaders and laymen keep yearning for a Star Trek variety of humanistic utopia with blind acceptance and cultural relativism, they thereby blind themselves from the actual world around them. For as much as European nations declare themselves to be "Post-Christian" nations, the nations of the middle-east are by far not "Post-Islam". Although many of the immigrants from such countries may not share in the extreme ideologies such as those held by governmental leaders or militia leaders, the descendants of such people probably will eventually lean backwards to them rather than adopt the "infidel" culture of those around them. And their populations will grow, especially in more devout families since the command to "be fruitful and multiply" is being observed by them while most non-immigrant Europeans are trying to reduce their population via planned parenthood, abortions, etc. With how much Christianity is hated, the atheists of such nations have blindsided themselves for the most part and eventually the nations of Europe will no longer be "Post-Christian", but neither will it be recognizable as Europe either.



codarac
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28 Aug 2010, 10:53 am

It looks like you've been reading neocon opinion pieces. Half of me thinks they're ok as far as they go; the other half considers that sort of thing harmfully obfuscatory.

It's striking how often neocons talk about the growth of Islam in Europe without even questioning why Muslims were allowed into Europe in such large numbers in the first place or even suggesting preventing the arrival of more, let alone suggesting the possibility of repatriation.



Hanotaux
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28 Aug 2010, 12:26 pm

When I attended American public school, our general curriculum used to include a comprehensive series of carefully constructed classroom exercises designed to demonstrate to the students how we "needed" interdependence and diversity. These exercises were periodic group exercises carefully worked to bring us mentally to an inevitable conclusion that a diverse solution was necessary and always the correct answer. We were given these exercises periodically as a massive running program for about 6 straight years starting in the 7th grade. These popped up about monthly.

I remember in my 11th grade history class, we were given once such exercise. The premise of this particular one was that a group of 4 students was to be stuck on a desert island, and we had to choose 4 individuals from a list of 50 very diverse individuals to take with us to be marooned on the island to help us survive. The list included terms like, "a black doctor, a white lawyer, a US Marine, a militant black panther," etc.

I had happened to be paired up for this exercise with 3 regulation cookie-cutter preppy white girls. These girls were the typical suburban Abercrombie & Fitch princesses.

We sat down and perused the list. One of the girls came to the "Militant Black Panther," and stated, "We need to take the Militant Black panther."

I was a bit shocked that an innocent looking teenage girl would be enthusiastic about a black panther, so I asked her, "Why do we need a Militant Black Panther?"

"For protection," she said.

"What protection would a black panther offer that the Marine wouldn't provide," I replied, "Any of the Police officer, soldier, or like 5 or 6 others would be better for protectioin."

"We need the Black panther because we "need diversity," she replied.

It was at that point that I realized that she was just subliminally spittng back to me the propaganda that had been inculcated in her as the result of many years of these exercises, and what was generally a massive comprehensive program of indoctrination. She was merely reacting and making choices in daily situations as she had been taught to................ diversity had become an end in itself. The exercise itself was a meaningless affair that had no import to her life or anyone esle's, but she had so internalized the specific ethos that had been drilled in to her, and she was casually applying it without thought. She was only reacting as she had been instructed.

She was speechless when I asked her to further elaborate on why diversity was so necessary. She could only recite that we needed diversity as a slogan, but she could not state any tangible benefit that diversity would bring to our marooned group and thus dropped the Black Panther. I think she even began to receive the first inkling of a hint that she had been brainwashed and just receiving constant ideological messages. She was probably a ways off from "waking up" though.

The same as how many youth in fascist regimes were indoctrinated with various ethoses without any thought at the time, the same "reverse fascism" is being imposed today. It is merely compelling a conformity to multicultural values and internationalism instead of a conformity to unicultural values and nationalism. A large part of this has been actualized by the dramatically lopsided support amongst the younger generation for Obama the "Global President."

Every diverse institution I have happened to witness firsthand has been a model of dysfunction.

And I agree with the OP.



iamnotaparakeet
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28 Aug 2010, 1:14 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
She was speechless when I asked her to further elaborate on why diversity was so necessary. She could only recite that we needed diversity as a slogan, but she could not state any tangible benefit that diversity would bring to our marooned group and thus dropped the Black Panther.


That preppy is a parakeet.



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28 Aug 2010, 1:39 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Hanotaux wrote:
She was speechless when I asked her to further elaborate on why diversity was so necessary. She could only recite that we needed diversity as a slogan, but she could not state any tangible benefit that diversity would bring to our marooned group and thus dropped the Black Panther.


That preppy is a parakeet.


Maybe she was just too embarrassed to say that she thought that the black panther would have a more impressive john thomas. ;)

Or maybe she just knew what she needed to do to pass the course.


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28 Aug 2010, 1:54 pm

A totalitarian theocracy is effective in suppressing other religious viewpoints - which is why we don't see very many evangelisation efforts in countries like Saudi Arabia. However, exposure to modern society and higher standards of living are probably the best ways to defeat fundamentalism - the lure of the comforts of modern life, education and freedom from the restrictive rules of religion and tradition eventually win, at least, most people over. With many European countries - the problem is that Muslim communities are not being effectively integrated into the rest of society - in the United States and Canada, this seems to be much less of a problem.

Also, victory through breeding is a strategy bound for failure.



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28 Aug 2010, 2:04 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
While secular leaders and laymen keep yearning for a Star Trek variety of humanistic utopia with blind acceptance and cultural relativism, they thereby blind themselves from the actual world around them. For as much as European nations declare themselves to be "Post-Christian" nations, the nations of the middle-east are by far not "Post-Islam". Although many of the immigrants from such countries may not share in the extreme ideologies such as those held by governmental leaders or militia leaders, the descendants of such people probably will eventually lean backwards to them rather than adopt the "infidel" culture of those around them. And their populations will grow, especially in more devout families since the command to "be fruitful and multiply" is being observed by them while most non-immigrant Europeans are trying to reduce their population via planned parenthood, abortions, etc. With how much Christianity is hated, the atheists of such nations have blindsided themselves for the most part and eventually the nations of Europe will no longer be "Post-Christian", but neither will it be recognizable as Europe either.

If they live here, their children will see that our way of life is more attractive than theirs. They will not tolerate the oppression of their ancestors while living in the land of the free.

I have as little love for radical Islam as you do, perhaps even less. But I really believe the best weapon against them is a display of the freedoms we have. We don't have to beat them when we can make them join us.


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28 Aug 2010, 2:23 pm

Orwell wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
While secular leaders and laymen keep yearning for a Star Trek variety of humanistic utopia with blind acceptance and cultural relativism, they thereby blind themselves from the actual world around them. For as much as European nations declare themselves to be "Post-Christian" nations, the nations of the middle-east are by far not "Post-Islam". Although many of the immigrants from such countries may not share in the extreme ideologies such as those held by governmental leaders or militia leaders, the descendants of such people probably will eventually lean backwards to them rather than adopt the "infidel" culture of those around them. And their populations will grow, especially in more devout families since the command to "be fruitful and multiply" is being observed by them while most non-immigrant Europeans are trying to reduce their population via planned parenthood, abortions, etc. With how much Christianity is hated, the atheists of such nations have blindsided themselves for the most part and eventually the nations of Europe will no longer be "Post-Christian", but neither will it be recognizable as Europe either.

If they live here, their children will see that our way of life is more attractive than theirs. They will not tolerate the oppression of their ancestors while living in the land of the free.

I have as little love for radical Islam as you do, perhaps even less. But I really believe the best weapon against them is a display of the freedoms we have. We don't have to beat them when we can make them join us.


But also the kids may feel horribly discriminated against and victimised and so become easy prey for the radicals.


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28 Aug 2010, 3:11 pm

It's amazing what rubbish passes for debate, even among people with good factual memories.

I still cannot believe iamparakeet is spreading this alarmist message after I pointed out to him that Muslim birthrates are declining.

WELL, JUST SO THIS SINKS IN, MUSLIM BIRTH RATES ARE ON THE DECLINE AND MUSLIMS MAKE UP ONLY 4.5% OF THE WESTERN EUROPEAN POPULATION AND A SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF EUROPE'S POPULATION AS A WHOLE. --- SOURCE ---



headphase
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28 Aug 2010, 7:02 pm

America has been Post-Christian since 1788.



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28 Aug 2010, 7:20 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
We sat down and perused the list. One of the girls came to the "Militant Black Panther," and stated, "We need to take the Militant Black panther."

I was a bit shocked that an innocent looking teenage girl would be enthusiastic about a black panther, so I asked her, "Why do we need a Militant Black Panther?"

"For protection," she said.

"What protection would a black panther offer that the Marine wouldn't provide," I replied, "Any of the Police officer, soldier, or like 5 or 6 others would be better for protectioin."

"We need the Black panther because we "need diversity," she replied.

In the 1970s they would have called it a case of jungle fever. For a lily-white suburban girl, there is something exotic—and a bit primal and untamed—about such a man: defiant, aggressive, willing to stand against the majority culture—in short, not you. :wink:
Hanotaux wrote:
Every diverse institution I have happened to witness firsthand has been a model of dysfunction.

As a fancier of women in tights, I would hope that you, the curator of Élite Tights, would be able to make your line-up of élite women in tights a bit more diverse: maybe adding a few African-American women, for example. If you want your institution (your blog) to be a success (i.e., get page views), you need to cater to that élite core of your audience: the fanciers who know what we're talking about. Otherwise what we're talking about is a dysfunctional management style that doesn't recognize the needs of the market it serves. The core of your market is an aristocracy of taste, and they will abandon you if you don't cater to their diverse tastes. You are more like an errand boy to these aristocrats. :wink:



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28 Aug 2010, 7:53 pm

headphase wrote:
America has been Post-Christian since 1788.


1833.


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28 Aug 2010, 7:54 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
Hanotaux wrote:
Every diverse institution I have happened to witness firsthand has been a model of dysfunction.

As a fancier of women in tights, I would hope that you, the curator of Élite Tights, would be able to make your line-up of élite women in tights a bit more diverse: maybe adding a few African-American women, for example. If you want your institution (your blog) to be a success (i.e., get page views), you need to cater to that élite core of your audience: the fanciers who know what we're talking about. Otherwise what we're talking about is a dysfunctional management style that doesn't recognize the needs of the market it serves. The core of your market is an aristocracy of taste, and they will abandon you if you don't cater to their diverse tastes. You are more like an errand boy to these aristocrats. :wink:


One of them seemed to have bit of a tan.


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28 Aug 2010, 7:58 pm

Orwell wrote:
But I really believe the best weapon against them is a display of the freedoms we have. We don't have to beat them when we can make them join us.


QFT

It worked on the Reds, it can work on everyone else too. I still say we ought to forget the cluster bombs and airdrop iphones and Coca Cola over the Middle East, their fundamentalists are more afraid of Facebook and Twitter than they are of guns and bombs.


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28 Aug 2010, 8:29 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
While secular leaders and laymen keep yearning for a Star Trek variety of humanistic utopia with blind acceptance and cultural relativism,


You mean those secular leaders who are accused of "intolerance" and "cultural imperialism" against Islam, those ones like Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens? Those people who say tolerance is good as a rule, but can go too far. Those guys and gals?

Quote:
they thereby blind themselves from the actual world around them.


Given that you're repeating a falsehood I debunked months ago, I find it ironic you're lecturing on non-reality based beliefs.

Quote:
For as much as European nations declare themselves to be "Post-Christian" nations, the nations of the middle-east are by far not "Post-Islam".


You mean those Islamic theocracies where birthrates are falling, the youth is emerging as a force of increasingly secular, progressive activism, and development has yet to hit?

Quote:
Although many of the immigrants from such countries may not share in the extreme ideologies such as those held by governmental leaders or militia leaders, the descendants of such people probably will eventually lean backwards to them rather than adopt the "infidel" culture of those around them.


Given that in Western Europe those Muslims (mainstream adults or radicalized youth or even radicalized converts) represent about 4.5% of the population, I don't take this threat seriously.

Quote:
And their populations will grow, especially in more devout families since the command to "be fruitful and multiply" is being observed by them while most non-immigrant Europeans are trying to reduce their population via planned parenthood, abortions, etc.


Such ashame that you didn't consult the facts, which show Western Europe couples are actually starting to have more children than they did a decade ago or that Muslim birthrates are falling worldwide.

Quote:
With how much Christianity is hated, the atheists of such nations have blindsided themselves for the most part and eventually the nations of Europe will no longer be "Post-Christian", but neither will it be recognizable as Europe either.


I love your race-baiting, fear-mongering, and general distain for demography. A peer of mine in High School was a Muslim youth, born in Pakistan and moved to Canada, and showed little signs of extremism. So, all I can say is, HOW DARE YOU. You Christian fear-mongerer - it's people of an ideology akin to yours who chucked aboriginal North Americans into horrible residential schools to Christianize them. My paternal grandmother still has memories of that, despite suffering from a Stockholme syndrome when it comes to the religious oppressors (she's still Catholic).

I really detest your ideology and your backwards, crusading religion.



Hanotaux
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28 Aug 2010, 11:31 pm

Quote:
If they live here, their children will see that our way of life is more attractive than theirs. They will not tolerate the oppression of their ancestors while living in the land of the free.


Really? France and Germany are still pretty decent countries to live in. Yet it is/was the guest workers who at least keep a low profile, while the 2nd and 3rd generation Algerian youths are the ones who are disaffected. It seems that there is more of a gap with the newer minority generations? I think this may be because the descendents of the guest workers did not go through the immigration process and mabye take living in their host country for granted.
------------

Quote:
In the 1970s they would have called it a case of jungle fever. For a lily-white suburban girl, there is something exotic—and a bit primal and untamed—about such a man: defiant, aggressive, willing to stand against the majority culture—in short, not you.


Its too bad................. they didn't know what they were missing. :D

Quote:
As a fancier of women in tights, I would hope that you, the curator of Élite Tights, would be able to make your line-up of élite women in tights a bit more diverse: maybe adding a few African-American women, for example. If you want your institution (your blog) to be a success (i.e., get page views), you need to cater to that élite core of your audience: the fanciers who know what we're talking about. Otherwise what we're talking about is a dysfunctional management style that doesn't recognize the needs of the market it serves. The core of your market is an aristocracy of taste, and they will abandon you if you don't cater to their diverse tastes. You are more like an errand boy to these aristocrats.


OK...............

stay tuned though as a model from Marutius, and a black model are both booked for September to shoot for Elite Tights. As you have expressed interest, stay tuned for the samples as I'll post them as soon as they get properly processed. Don't miss it.

I'll give you a heads up. They will wear lots of tights. I'm actually looking forward to see the results.

I'm not a bad guy or anything, but I've just seen that unicultural institutions tend to be very organized, cohesive, and working towards a common goal. Its best when your employees all have many things in common and naturally pull together, share the same culture, and drive towards the same objective.

Still, WHITE GIRLS RULE ! !! !! !! !! !! !! ! And it aint even close ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !