Page 1 of 4 [ 60 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Master_Pedant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,903

19 Sep 2010, 11:35 pm

The theologically ultraliberal Canadian Muslim Congress has an interesting stance on wearing the burka in public:

Canadian Muslim Congress wrote:
TORONTO - The Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC) is asking Ottawa to introduce legislation to ban the wearing of masks, niqabs and the burka in all public dealings.


http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/20091008.html

The Canadian Secular Alliance, a bit more of a civilly libertarian organization, disagrees.

Canadian Secular Alliance wrote:
What is the issue?
• Some Canadian public figures and organizations, including the Muslim Canadian Congress, have recently called on the government to ban certain forms of female Muslim dress. They argue that the niqab (face covering) and burka (full body covering) – for simplicity, collectively referred to herein as “the veil” – are an affront to Canada’s commitment to gender equality, and are psychologically and physically harmful to the wearer.
What is the CSA’s position on banning the veil?
• The CSA, as an organization advancing government neutrality in matters of religion, cannot support legal prohibition of the veil. The general view of the CSA is that:
(1) in the absence of a compelling reason to the contrary, no person should be forced to comply with a dress code imposed by the state; and
(2) no person should be forced to comply with a dress code imposed by their families, religious leaders, or cultural community.
• The CSA does not believe that the law is an instrument that can effectively address (2) while respecting Canadians’ fundamental rights and freedoms. Canadian law cannot shield a woman from non-violent influence exerted by others. Coercion involving violence or the threat of violence is already prohibited under the Criminal Code and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
• In short, the CSA supports both the right of women to wear the veil if they so choose, and the right of women not to wear the veil if they so choose. Instead of selectively banning some religious practices, our society should do more to ensure that girls and women in religious communities are aware of their rights as Canadians, and do more to support and enable them to exit a religious community should they so choose.


The Canadian Muslim Congress seems to have shifted rather starkly in such an anti-anything other than ultraliberal Islam position ever since the Canadian Muslim Union (more moderately liberal Muslims) split from the organization (the Canadian Islamic Congress represents fundamentalist Muslims, by the way).

I agree with the Canadian Secular Alliance & not the Canadian Muslim Congress, by the way.



Katharsistwo
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 42

19 Sep 2010, 11:50 pm

Even the ' jesus and the donkey' topic was more interesting than this.



Master_Pedant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,903

20 Sep 2010, 12:07 am

Katharsistwo wrote:
Even the ' jesus and the donkey' topic was more interesting than this.


Aww shucks, I got a troll with enough of a vendetta against me to pretend they aren't amazed at my knowledge of political ironies. And one that rhetorically shoots themselves in the foot by saying "this topic sucks" yet expending the energy to type a reply.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

20 Sep 2010, 3:22 am

I've never seen anyone in a "niqab" or a burka in public. I've seen plenty of hijabs or head scarves or whatever they're called.

But yea, the government shouldn't be banning so and so religious dress because it causes supposed psychological harmful to the wearer. Bad precedent.

The only real argument is that it's an affront to public safety by walking around in a mask. I remember a controversy a few years ago about Muslim women wanting to wear burkas in driving license photos. They should have to identify themselves when prompted just as everybody else is.



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

20 Sep 2010, 10:22 am

Jacoby wrote:
I've never seen anyone in a "niqab" or a burka in public. I've seen plenty of hijabs or head scarves or whatever they're called.

But yea, the government shouldn't be banning so and so religious dress because it causes supposed psychological harmful to the wearer. Bad precedent.

I've seen one niqabi in New York, and a handful of hijabis around my college campus. I agree with you; the government should not have the authority to mandate dress codes in that manner.

Quote:
The only real argument is that it's an affront to public safety by walking around in a mask. I remember a controversy a few years ago about Muslim women wanting to wear burkas in driving license photos. They should have to identify themselves when prompted just as everybody else is.

The issue of identification is the only place where it is possible to argue a government interest. It should be noted that there is no passage of the Qu'ran that can at all be construed as requiring a burka or niqab. Some readings of the Qu'ran uphold the hijab, other interpretations do not, but the niqab is most definitely not required.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

20 Sep 2010, 11:36 am

Jacoby wrote:
I've never seen anyone in a "niqab" or a burka in public. I've seen plenty of hijabs or head scarves or whatever they're called.


Come to Preston or Blackburn in the UK. You'll see niqabs quite frequently. It unnerves a lot of people here. Personally, I think that all health facilities, airports and other government facilities should ban them with the hint that private businesses should do so too if they want to - shops, banks and post offices particularly.

It's an archaic cultural garment associated with the extremes of Islam, not a religious symbol. No-one minds a face scarf. We do mind not having eye contact and being able to see the face of the person we're talking to.



sartresue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

20 Sep 2010, 1:51 pm

Tequila wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I've never seen anyone in a "niqab" or a burka in public. I've seen plenty of hijabs or head scarves or whatever they're called.


Come to Preston or Blackburn in the UK. You'll see niqabs quite frequently. It unnerves a lot of people here. Personally, I think that all health facilities, airports and other government facilities should ban them with the hint that private businesses should do so too if they want to - shops, banks and post offices particularly.

It's an archaic cultural garment associated with the extremes of Islam, not a religious symbol. No-one minds a face scarf. We do mind not having eye contact and being able to see the face of the person we're talking to.


Cloak and Dagger topic

It cannot be easy to see through that burka. Speaking to a woman wearing such a garment would not bother me. I do not like eyeballs much, but identity is a problem. I personally do not think such a garment can be banned, but identity must be established for reasons such as airport security, government licensing, and photo shoots for healthcards.

Preston UK...birthplace of Robert W, Service, who wrote The Cremation of Sam McGee. :D


_________________
Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind

Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo


Jono
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,660
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

20 Sep 2010, 2:00 pm

I don't get it. How can the Canadian Muslim Congress want to ban the burqa while the Canadian Secular Alliance is opposed the ban? This is the reverse of what I'd expect and I cannot fail to see the irony here.



skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

20 Sep 2010, 2:26 pm

Can they ban popped collars, too?

Image


How about just generally looking like a douchebag?

Image


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


you_are_what_you_is
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 755
Location: Cornwall, UK

20 Sep 2010, 4:43 pm

Anybody who wants to control how other people dress is a moron and a jackass.

.


_________________
"There is no idea, however ancient and absurd, that is not capable of improving our knowledge."


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

20 Sep 2010, 5:05 pm

you_are_what_you_is wrote:
Anybody who wants to control how other people dress is a moron and a jackass.

.


What about banning face masks and hoods in banks?
Is that foolish or is it a measure to discourage bank robberies?

ruveyn



iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

20 Sep 2010, 5:47 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Katharsistwo wrote:
Even the ' jesus and the donkey' topic was more interesting than this.


Aww shucks, I got a troll with enough of a vendetta against me to pretend they aren't amazed at my knowledge of political ironies. And one that rhetorically shoots themselves in the foot by saying "this topic sucks" yet expending the energy to type a reply.


This topic sucks.



iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

20 Sep 2010, 5:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:
you_are_what_you_is wrote:
Anybody who wants to control how other people dress is a moron and a jackass.

.


What about banning face masks and hoods in banks?
Is that foolish or is it a measure to discourage bank robberies?

ruveyn


It may be a measure, at least in that the ones who commit the crimes would disregard the law anyhow (if they cared about concealing their identity prior to self detonation at least, which I doubt people who psych themselves down to that mindset would care. Bank robbers though, they intend to live on and use their "free money", so they have a motive for identity concealment.)



iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

20 Sep 2010, 5:51 pm

you_are_what_you_is wrote:
Anybody who wants to control how other people dress is a moron and a jackass.

.


Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberry wine. Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time.



MissConstrue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 17,052
Location: MO

20 Sep 2010, 6:40 pm

Wow what douchebags.

These women need to get in there and start a protest.


:P


Image


_________________
I live as I choose or I will not live at all.
~Delores O’Riordan


sartresue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

20 Sep 2010, 6:48 pm

Where's the burka? topic

Click above to see the latest in the after Eid sales. :D


_________________
Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind

Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo