Spectrum is confusing?

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Ok so i am just thinking aloud here. I have talked to many people, and it seems like 90 percent of people i talk to, people without any diagnoses and supposedly normal all exibit some symptoms from these disorders in varying degrees. So how much is personality how much is disorder? it is indeed very confusing. I am positive i have NLD, and possibly as. But some people exibit things such as getting disoriented at the top of a staircase or getting on escalators really slow cause it is confusing. I guess that is why it is so hard to diagnose. Just thoughts streaming from my head, thats it! lol, let me know your thoughts on this.

Most mental and neurological conditions can be represented by the extreme end of the typical range of traits. For example, some people have a harder time learning to read than others; but only the people who have a lot of difficulty are called dyslexic.

There are two questions a doctor has to answer when he makes a diagnosis:
1. Do you need a diagnosis?
2. Do the traits match?

If you look only at #2, you'll see the way that traits common to autistic people are also present in non-autistic people. It's #1 that makes the difference: Do you need a diagnosis? That is, is there significant impairment caused by these traits? Do you need help? If you don't, then there's no diagnosis necessary, and a doctor would be incorrect to use one. Those typical people with autistic or NVLD traits you see are not diagnosed because they don't have significant impairment caused by their traits--they have those traits, but no associated disability, so they don't need a diagnosis.

just about everyone exhibits symptoms of asperger's/autism. There isn't a single known symptom of Asperger's that can't be found in some NTs. You might just be reading too much into these small traits that they have. On the AQ test, people with AS/HFA score about 35/50 and NTs score about 16/50, that means that an average NT has approx. 16 AS/autism symptoms.

I hope this was helpful!

Well, every "difference" can be seen as a personality trait or a temporary action among other people who have no diagnosis.

As said earlier, the difference between a NT version of autistic traits and Aspies trait is the intensity, it's basically the same difference between Aspies and LFA I guess, it all depend on the definition used sometimes but still.

You see, someone who says "I confuse except and expect" sometimes would be normal with normal reading difficulties while a dyslexic need help or great coping skills to make this mistake the only one that people can see since they would have much more reading difficulties. My cousin, for example, have trouble finding the right words but also the right sounds (in French, "ent" have two pronounciations and at 16 you should be able to make the difference when you read because of obvious rules you have learned earlier), to understand what they are actually reading, etc.

I have dyslexic traits due to my dyspraxia, however I am not dyslexic because I do not have major difficulties.

Some people have trouble making friends or have a strong interest in something though they are not autistic because the characteristics are still weaker than in most autistic people, though it may seem tricky since adult and teenagers can learn coping skills.


So, as people said, in your own case, could you say what make you think about NLDV ?

If you are not impaired, then you don't have a disorder. People who function perfectly well don't just decide they are autistic because it sounds nice. If one is merely shy and fascinated with gadgets, but happy and able to make social connections, then they are not on the spectrum. There is a list of criteria that have to be met!

Last edited by dyingofpoetry on 03 Nov 2010, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think the term 'significant impairment' is subjective and where most of the variance is. How do you know whether a child, who is 7 years old and noticeably different from his peers, is significantly impaired? What is such an impairment measured against? In some cases it may be obvious; in others, it's more controversial. It's unlikely that a 7-year old would know the answer to this question in many cases. It's more likely that the parents wouldn't want to take the chance that their son or daughter is actually "significantly impaired" and not get services they may need.

Once a person is deemed to be on the spectrum, they'll always be on the spectrum. But significant impairment may come and go, depending on one's life situation and age. How can it be both ways?

That is exactly what I've said in a few other threads. Just because somebody is sensitive to loud noise doesn't mean she is on the spectrum. Just because somebody has his head in the clouds a lot doesn't mean he is on the spectrum. If you had no symptoms of AS at all, you would be very, very simple, and robotic, and plain. Conversly, not every Aspie has every single Aspie symptom either. I don't take things literally, and I'm not sensitive to light, and I don't stim. But that doesn't make me NT because I was diagnosed with Dyspraxia and I have self-diagnosed myself with AS.

It's like people who are diagnosed with a bowel problem. They get a lot of stomachache, and constipation and/or diarrhea, and lots of other symptoms like that. I don't have a single problem with my bowels - but I do occasionally get constipated or have diarrhea.
Same thing with Aspies and NTs.

It was very helpful. NTs aren't perfect people. I'm glad somebody else agrees with this.

Here's some characteristics of adults diagnosed with Asperger's and rates of other mental illness and rates of Asperger's-type symptoms:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... X-9-35.pdf

Look at the Tables 1-4.

+1

There's no common consensus on what is meant by "significant impairment" or "levels of functioning." There are plenty of people with jobs who live independently, but who still are diagnosed AS. Hell, for the past three weekends, I've been hanging out with friends. I also have a job and have no need of services. Guess what: I still have AS.

Who gets to decide what a "significant impairment" is?

I was never diagnosed and little point at this point.

How much of a toehold I have on the spectrum is hard to say.

When is a disorder not a disability? When is a handicap a disorder? There are unclear boundaries.

All I know is: The spectral traits which keep me feeling I fit WP more than other spots I have visited have significantly impacted my social and professional functioning in the NY designed world.

So?

Fact - my NT brother and sister are far more handicapped / disordered. They would not find much illumination and support here though they are lower functioning than many.

Yep, you do need impairment to get a dx.

In my case, I am mostly impaired by mood swings and psychosis, so they gave me a dx of schizoaffective. I also have problems with social skills, but they are less severe than my other problems functioning wise. So I was told that if I have AS, that is less important than my other dx and also told that I shouldn't be looking for more dx's.

On the other hand, my problems with social communication are being ignored by the mental health professionals. They helped a lot when I was a kid and I had social skills training, but as an adult...... it's being ignored, but at the same time I don't have as much impairment as most people on the spectrum.

That's very interesting. My older NT sister has a very severe impairment: she's an utter moron. She can't keep a job and screws up all of her relationships, but she's as NT as the day is long.

I'm much more "functional" than she is. Like Attwood said, my AS rears its ugly head when I encounter "new" situations I have no template for. Beyond that, I have the advantage of common sense. Likewise, my psychologist claims the people most impaired are the ones who are not self-aware enough to realize they have a problem.

So hypothetically two people could have the same kind of brain wiring and yet one has AS and the other doesn't because the latter isn't having any significant impairment?

In fact this means the disorder would depend not only on the brain's wiring but on where the person finds themselves in life. It would also mean that a change in scenery(getting a new job, moving to a new place) could be a potential "cure" not in the sense of changing the fundamental way the person's brain works but in the sense of eliminating the "significant impairment" requirement of the disorder while leaving in tact the other traits.

Personal attitude would even be important. A person who throws a fit everytime someone misinterprets what they say would have trouble even if this happened only very rarely. A person who doesn't care might not have a problem and not experience significant impairment(i.e. job loss, failing school, marital issues, problems with the law).

And I'll note, you see this "significant impairment" requirement with almost every mental disorder so why is it that when treating mental disorders they always try to change the brain's actual functioning or attack the list of symptoms instead of guiding the person to an attitude and/or place where the symptoms don't cause significant impairment? Of course $$$. There's more money to be made selling pills or keeping a person in perpetual need of counseling than counseling them to where they will no longer meet the "significant impairment" aspect. Advising a client "you know if you learn such-and-such a language and move to such-and-such a place you'll find your behavior is not considered out of the ordinary" is not a good way to make $$$.

Another thing, does that mean AS can technically be "cured" in the sense that a person can get to a point where there is no significant impairment and therefore they don't match the criteria? Or is it "grandfathered", that is is it still considered to be there as long as the person was diagnosed before? And if that's the case could someone be diagnosed based on a history of "significant impairment" even if at the time they experience no impairment. I have no diagnosis and I'm definitely sure I would've met the criteria as a child but now in adulthood I have lots of friends, and college is going well. Trying to get a diagnosis actually seems like a waste of my time at this point.

Again, according to Attwood, a person can get to the point where their AS is barely noticeable. They still have AS as AS is a matter of "brain wiring," but they're functional. Of course, not everyone will reach this point, which is why it's a "spectrum."

If you feel you need a diagnosis for whatever the reason, get one. If not, it's up to you. I didn't go to my shrink wanting to be diagnosed with anything.

Xfilesgeek "Likewise, my psychologist claims the people most impaired are the ones who are not self-aware enough to realize they have a problem."

That said it. My mother always criticized my grandmother for totally supporting / facilitating her sister, who spent yeasrs moaning of how lost she would be when grandma died [when grandma did she just shifted anf got total support from my uncle]. So my mother handles my sister by every month handing her rent money because she frittered every dollar she earned on junk - until my sister stopped working altogether.

My sister does not worry much - she just gets others to fix everything, then gripes because it is not done right.

And I am the strange one in the family?

I like a lot of what's been said here.

I would say, in addition to level of impairment (it's not a black and white impaired or not) it's also about the pattern of traits.

I find it interesting that learning about autism and asperger's has helped me not only to understand those with autism/asperger's, but also some people I know who have some traits but who I'm pretty darn sure don't have an autistic disorder. It helps me understand some people's differences.

Actually, when I started looking at autism, I would have put myself in that category (having traits, but not having autism). I just figured I had enough in common with autism that I could learn something about myself. Now I'm not so sure that I wouldn't've ever been diagnosable. Doesn't really matter. I don't think I would be know.