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FunnyFaceKing
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20 Nov 2010, 4:37 pm

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An immortal: this is what the worst situations that can be inflicted upon Man show him to be, in so far as he distinguishes himself within the varied and racious flux of life. In order to think any aspect of Man, we must begin from this principle. So if 'rights of man' exist, they are surely not rights of life against death, or rights of survival against misery. They are the rights of the Immortal, affirmed in their own right, or the rights of the Infinite, excercised over the contingency of suffering and death.

The fact that in the end we all die, that only dust remains, in no way alters Man's identity as immortal at the instant in which he affirms himself as someone who runs counter to the temptation of wanting-to-be-an-animal to which circumstances may expose him. And we know that every human being is capable of being this immortal -- unpredictably, be it in circumstances great or small, for truths important or secondary.


Badiou, Alain. Ethics: An Essay on the Understanding of Evil. London * New York: Verso, 2001



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20 Nov 2010, 5:28 pm

You know, personally, I find a great deal of the sense of eternity when I'm feeling most animal.


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Sand
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20 Nov 2010, 6:49 pm

FunnyFaceKing wrote:
Quote:
An immortal: this is what the worst situations that can be inflicted upon Man show him to be, in so far as he distinguishes himself within the varied and racious flux of life. In order to think any aspect of Man, we must begin from this principle. So if 'rights of man' exist, they are surely not rights of life against death, or rights of survival against misery. They are the rights of the Immortal, affirmed in their own right, or the rights of the Infinite, excercised over the contingency of suffering and death.

The fact that in the end we all die, that only dust remains, in no way alters Man's identity as immortal at the instant in which he affirms himself as someone who runs counter to the temptation of wanting-to-be-an-animal to which circumstances may expose him. And we know that every human being is capable of being this immortal -- unpredictably, be it in circumstances great or small, for truths important or secondary.


Badiou, Alain. Ethics: An Essay on the Understanding of Evil. London * New York: Verso, 2001


The hubris that people claim to be not animals in order to claim some super capacity is a tragi-comic failing that is intellectually pitiful since there is nothing in humanity that is not animal.



leejosepho
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20 Nov 2010, 7:20 pm

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... if 'rights of man' exist, they are ... excercised over the contingency of suffering and death.

That makes perfect sense to me, and that might even include the right to abandon those rights.


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22 Nov 2010, 7:26 pm

1 Corinthians 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.



Sand
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22 Nov 2010, 7:43 pm

chrissyrun wrote:
1 Corinthians 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


At age 18 the human nervous system is not quite complete. Give it time. There is still hope.



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22 Nov 2010, 9:30 pm

I think were ultimately one consciousness with this whole ego drama projected onto it. So, yah, I do believe that when we die, we lose our human identities, but I think there's a certain aspect of us that's non-material, sort of like the potential for gravitational fields that exist in all points of space-time that become warped and bent when occupied by a physical body that has a lot of mass.



Sand
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22 Nov 2010, 10:13 pm

FunnyFaceKing wrote:
Quote:
An immortal: this is what the worst situations that can be inflicted upon Man show him to be, in so far as he distinguishes himself within the varied and racious flux of life. In order to think any aspect of Man, we must begin from this principle. So if 'rights of man' exist, they are surely not rights of life against death, or rights of survival against misery. They are the rights of the Immortal, affirmed in their own right, or the rights of the Infinite, excercised over the contingency of suffering and death.

The fact that in the end we all die, that only dust remains, in no way alters Man's identity as immortal at the instant in which he affirms himself as someone who runs counter to the temptation of wanting-to-be-an-animal to which circumstances may expose him. And we know that every human being is capable of being this immortal -- unpredictably, be it in circumstances great or small, for truths important or secondary.


Badiou, Alain. Ethics: An Essay on the Understanding of Evil. London * New York: Verso, 2001


People who have a predisposition for shallow thought throw terms like "infinite" and "immortal" around as if they were things obvious and easily comprehended whereas they are actually mere sounds not quite as informational as the babble of a brook or an occasional sneeze. It's BS. Humans are animals and cannot escape that.



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23 Nov 2010, 4:55 am

Sand wrote:
FunnyFaceKing wrote:
Quote:
An immortal: this is what the worst situations that can be inflicted upon Man show him to be, in so far as he distinguishes himself within the varied and racious flux of life. In order to think any aspect of Man, we must begin from this principle. So if 'rights of man' exist, they are surely not rights of life against death, or rights of survival against misery. They are the rights of the Immortal, affirmed in their own right, or the rights of the Infinite, excercised over the contingency of suffering and death.

The fact that in the end we all die, that only dust remains, in no way alters Man's identity as immortal at the instant in which he affirms himself as someone who runs counter to the temptation of wanting-to-be-an-animal to which circumstances may expose him. And we know that every human being is capable of being this immortal -- unpredictably, be it in circumstances great or small, for truths important or secondary.


Badiou, Alain. Ethics: An Essay on the Understanding of Evil. London * New York: Verso, 2001


People who have a predisposition for shallow thought throw terms like "infinite" and "immortal" around as if they were things obvious and easily comprehended whereas they are actually mere sounds not quite as informational as the babble of a brook or an occasional sneeze. It's BS. Humans are animals and cannot escape that.


Infinity is a mathematical concept that identifies that all conceptual limitations are ultimately arbitrary and that there is no reason why a line, plane, three dimensional space, shouldn't continue on forever. Immortality is the idea that death is, in some way, illusory and that a part of you is eternal in some respect. These mere sounds, as you call them, have very well established meanings behind them.



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23 Nov 2010, 5:03 am

JNathanK wrote:
Sand wrote:
FunnyFaceKing wrote:
Quote:
An immortal: this is what the worst situations that can be inflicted upon Man show him to be, in so far as he distinguishes himself within the varied and racious flux of life. In order to think any aspect of Man, we must begin from this principle. So if 'rights of man' exist, they are surely not rights of life against death, or rights of survival against misery. They are the rights of the Immortal, affirmed in their own right, or the rights of the Infinite, excercised over the contingency of suffering and death.

The fact that in the end we all die, that only dust remains, in no way alters Man's identity as immortal at the instant in which he affirms himself as someone who runs counter to the temptation of wanting-to-be-an-animal to which circumstances may expose him. And we know that every human being is capable of being this immortal -- unpredictably, be it in circumstances great or small, for truths important or secondary.


Badiou, Alain. Ethics: An Essay on the Understanding of Evil. London * New York: Verso, 2001


People who have a predisposition for shallow thought throw terms like "infinite" and "immortal" around as if they were things obvious and easily comprehended whereas they are actually mere sounds not quite as informational as the babble of a brook or an occasional sneeze. It's BS. Humans are animals and cannot escape that.


Infinity is a mathematical concept that identifies that all conceptual limitations are ultimately arbitrary and that there is no reason why a line, plane, three dimensional space, shouldn't continue on forever. Immortality is the idea that death is, in some way, illusory and that a part of you is eternal in some respect. These mere sounds, as you call them, have very well established meanings behind them.


Lines and planes are mathematical abstractions and have no existence in reality. Immortality is a fantasy concept adopted by people who cannot face the reality that life is limited. It's a great business for religions that do well by it. Las Vegas is well supported by fools on the same principle as the Vatican.



JNathanK
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23 Nov 2010, 6:11 am

Sand wrote:
JNathanK wrote:
Sand wrote:
FunnyFaceKing wrote:
Quote:
An immortal: this is what the worst situations that can be inflicted upon Man show him to be, in so far as he distinguishes himself within the varied and racious flux of life. In order to think any aspect of Man, we must begin from this principle. So if 'rights of man' exist, they are surely not rights of life against death, or rights of survival against misery. They are the rights of the Immortal, affirmed in their own right, or the rights of the Infinite, excercised over the contingency of suffering and death.

The fact that in the end we all die, that only dust remains, in no way alters Man's identity as immortal at the instant in which he affirms himself as someone who runs counter to the temptation of wanting-to-be-an-animal to which circumstances may expose him. And we know that every human being is capable of being this immortal -- unpredictably, be it in circumstances great or small, for truths important or secondary.


Badiou, Alain. Ethics: An Essay on the Understanding of Evil. London * New York: Verso, 2001


People who have a predisposition for shallow thought throw terms like "infinite" and "immortal" around as if they were things obvious and easily comprehended whereas they are actually mere sounds not quite as informational as the babble of a brook or an occasional sneeze. It's BS. Humans are animals and cannot escape that.


Infinity is a mathematical concept that identifies that all conceptual limitations are ultimately arbitrary and that there is no reason why a line, plane, three dimensional space, shouldn't continue on forever. Immortality is the idea that death is, in some way, illusory and that a part of you is eternal in some respect. These mere sounds, as you call them, have very well established meanings behind them.


Lines and planes are mathematical abstractions and have no existence in reality. Immortality is a fantasy concept adopted by people who cannot face the reality that life is limited. It's a great business for religions that do well by it. Las Vegas is well supported by fools on the same principle as the Vatican.
Lines and planes have a basis in reality, because there's demonstrable, real world applications behind it. The concepts that apply on paper can easily apply to physical space. In fact, astrophysicists have even speculated that there may be no actual center of the universe. Immortality isn't really a fantasy concept completely. Yes, all matter and even space and time change form, but the changes don't mean that there isn't some eternality to all of it in the grand scheme. The energy that makes up all matter in the universe could, very well, be going through some cycle that's always existed.



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23 Nov 2010, 6:15 am

This too, shall pass.

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Sand
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23 Nov 2010, 6:23 am

JNathanK wrote:
Sand wrote:
JNathanK wrote:
Sand wrote:
FunnyFaceKing wrote:
Quote:
An immortal: this is what the worst situations that can be inflicted upon Man show him to be, in so far as he distinguishes himself within the varied and racious flux of life. In order to think any aspect of Man, we must begin from this principle. So if 'rights of man' exist, they are surely not rights of life against death, or rights of survival against misery. They are the rights of the Immortal, affirmed in their own right, or the rights of the Infinite, excercised over the contingency of suffering and death.

The fact that in the end we all die, that only dust remains, in no way alters Man's identity as immortal at the instant in which he affirms himself as someone who runs counter to the temptation of wanting-to-be-an-animal to which circumstances may expose him. And we know that every human being is capable of being this immortal -- unpredictably, be it in circumstances great or small, for truths important or secondary.


Badiou, Alain. Ethics: An Essay on the Understanding of Evil. London * New York: Verso, 2001


People who have a predisposition for shallow thought throw terms like "infinite" and "immortal" around as if they were things obvious and easily comprehended whereas they are actually mere sounds not quite as informational as the babble of a brook or an occasional sneeze. It's BS. Humans are animals and cannot escape that.


Infinity is a mathematical concept that identifies that all conceptual limitations are ultimately arbitrary and that there is no reason why a line, plane, three dimensional space, shouldn't continue on forever. Immortality is the idea that death is, in some way, illusory and that a part of you is eternal in some respect. These mere sounds, as you call them, have very well established meanings behind them.


Lines and planes are mathematical abstractions and have no existence in reality. Immortality is a fantasy concept adopted by people who cannot face the reality that life is limited. It's a great business for religions that do well by it. Las Vegas is well supported by fools on the same principle as the Vatican.
Lines and planes have a basis in reality, because there's demonstrable, real world applications behind it. The concepts that apply on paper can easily apply to physical space. In fact, astrophysicists have even speculated that there may be no actual center of the universe. Immortality isn't really a fantasy concept completely. Yes, all matter and even space and time change form, but the changes don't mean that there isn't some eternality to all of it in the grand scheme. The energy that makes up all matter in the universe could, very well, be going through some cycle that's always existed.


Look up the second law of thermodynamics and stop talking foolishness.



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23 Nov 2010, 1:49 pm

Sand wrote:
JNathanK wrote:
Sand wrote:
JNathanK wrote:
Sand wrote:
FunnyFaceKing wrote:
Quote:

Lines and planes are mathematical abstractions and have no existence in reality. Immortality is a fantasy concept adopted by people who cannot face the reality that life is limited. It's a great business for religions that do well by it. Las Vegas is well supported by fools on the same principle as the Vatican.
Lines and planes have a basis in reality, because there's demonstrable, real world applications behind it. The concepts that apply on paper can easily apply to physical space. In fact, astrophysicists have even speculated that there may be no actual center of the universe. Immortality isn't really a fantasy concept completely. Yes, all matter and even space and time change form, but the changes don't mean that there isn't some eternality to all of it in the grand scheme. The energy that makes up all matter in the universe could, very well, be going through some cycle that's always existed.


Look up the second law of thermodynamics and stop talking foolishness.
Yah, I know what entropy is, but there's a basic logic gap in assuming this is all a purely isolated system. Where did the big bang come from? The idea that it just spontaneously came out of nowhere and was preceded by an infinite past of nothingness is as ridiculous a notion as a big man in the sky doing all of it. Heat death is probably a real phenomenon, but I don't think that's the end of the story.



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23 Nov 2010, 2:28 pm

I can't imagine a fate any worse than immortality.


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23 Nov 2010, 3:28 pm

Sand wrote:
The hubris that people claim to be not animals in order to claim some super capacity is a tragi-comic failing that is intellectually pitiful since there is nothing in humanity that is not animal.


I'm not sure if I completely agree with this statement. There is certainly much that is animal in man. But where I feel there is a void in me by which I lack abilities in connecting with other humans, there is an (unusual) affinity with animals within that void which I feel would not be there if that space did not exist.

So from that perspective it sometimes seems that humanity may lack something that is animal and has something else in its place. But I am intellectually skeptical of this and concede there could be more mundane reasons for this feeling as well. This is on my mind as I attempted to draft a poem about it this morning :oops: