Some Theorize ADHD and AS are both on the ASD

Post Reply New Topic

I have been reading a theory that suggests the two are related as they have many common traits.

Suppose it is true. Let us then hypothesize that ADHD/ADD is at the bottom rung of the ASD. That is it causes the least amount of severity of impairment in the Social, Behavioral, and communication. Suppose that HFA/AS is in the middle and LFA or Kanner's is at the top. That would not mean that someone with both AS and ADHD was somewhere between the two, as it is possible to still have impairments or effects of impairments in the higher range of the AS part of the disorder.

PDD-Nos would probably range throughout as it has no specifics.

Could this be a viable theory? Both ADHD and AS have issue with sensory stimuli, attention, reaction to change, impulsiveness, motor skills, and there similiarities in the checklists. Maybe some of the other co-morbid or similar conditions simply be classified as inherent or learned social impairments.

It makes sense to me... I've been thinking of how similar many traits of ADHD are to those that we Aspies experience. ADDers frequently miss social cues; there's the disorganization, the lacking sense of time... and let's not forget the absent-mindedness...

Granted, I was diagnosed with ADHD early on, so I'm a bit biased.

Oh, yeah, and some more food for thought: The "You Know You Have ADD When..." list. I'm guilty of so many of these things, it's funny in a sad sort of way...
http://www.fdisk.com/cgi-bin/add/youknow.pl

I tend to disagree, I think that while comorbid and perhaps related it is a seperate condition. But of course this is all just my opinion.

(thinks back to training in ADHD...) isn't ADHD where neurotransmitters don't travel across the synaptic gap at the correct speed, though? (i.e. more slowly). which is why Ritalin (=speed/ampehtamine) alleviates the symptoms, by speeding up the process. i wouldn't have thought that this would explain the range of characteristics of AS.

and i'm not being hierarchical about which condition is "worse" or "better" here, by the way.

I think "comorbid' works fine, and I'm one of the people who has both.
(adhd is as yet undiagnosed, but I'm pretty darn sure.)
People on the more severe end of the autism spectrum tend to have the same traits as people on the mild end of the spectrum, but more severely. But Asperger's/HFA could never be described as very severe ADHD.
Well, that's my two cents anyway.

Another point, I feel I'm more severely autistic than many people who are aspies but not ADDers.

P.S. Thanks for the link Codeman.

Last edited by JennieRichee on 04 Jan 2005, 5:19 am, edited 3 times in total.

They may both be alike in terms of symptoms, but based on what I've read, the suspected causes of both, the course that the disorders follow, and the eventual outcomes that occur as children grow into adults seems to indicate to me that they are two seperate disorders with different causes.

That link.... have just finished crying with laughter, cos I do nearly all of them.... I have never been formally diagnosed with ADHD (to my knowledge - my mum doesnt tell me much) but even as a kid I was hyperactive, incredibly untidy, scatty, tuned out all the time, and was on a restricted diet to ostensibly 'calm me down a bit'.... I think its a fair assumption that I have both AS and ADHD. It describes my son and daughter to a tee also (they are both awaiting assessment for ADHD, unsurprisingly). It seems to be a co morbid to me rather than part of the spectrum. Looking at my kids, there is a massive difference in the way they interact with others and they way they seem to process information - my son has AS, my daughter doesn't - but they both have similar ADHD traits.

Dunc

Well Part of the reason I brought this up, at least according to some of the things I have read including "The ADHD Autism Connection" by Diane Kennedy, they have not actually looked at the causes of ADHD, only the symptoms, and therefore could not truely now if there is a similar cause. The question, like her book, could at least bring the theory to the fore to look at closely. I have read there are some neuro related causes like in Autism. But I don't believe that either the severity or the severity of impact of the ADHD disorder are as severe as AS or Kanners, which is why I put it at the bottom. AS, I believe is relatively mild form of autism, but it can similarly severe impact of impairment on lifestyle and some the symptoms can be severe enough to rank at a high end of AS or close to the Kanner border. On this, you can see many AS that can hold a job and even have a few friends, but on the other side, many cannot hold a job nor sustain friendships if they have or ever had any at all. I also have been informed of other differences between ADHD and AS, but this would not neccessarily separate it from the ASD, are the reasons for the symptoms. For example, AS has attention problems because of narrow focuses or lack of interest in whatever is in front of them requiring their attention, ADHD has attention problems, but they are easily distracted by other stimuli. Supposedly, going back to the ADHD on ASD argument, though researchers on both subjects have discovered similarities but never compared notes and they approach the problems differently, but there is doubts about the effectiveness of the ADHD solution to treat symptoms versus ASD's approach to treat the source. ADHD beleive the problems are partly willful behavior defiance yet they say it is a problem with the executive function of the brain just like ASD. When they treat, they use reward and punishment behavior modification. When ASD treats they use methods designed to allow comprehension. A ADHD subject might be told to draw what is seen (there is a display table with an object), when the whole room is drawn they might be punished for willfully disobeying the request, on the same issue the ASD subject would be told to draw what is seen on the table only. Thus clearer comprehension. I don't know if they would interpret instructions the same, I merely use this as an example of how to rely instructions and how the approach to treatments differ.

In my opinion, socially, autism and ADD are complete opposites. If there's any spectrum, it works like this:

Schizoid <-> High-Functioning Autism <-> Asperger's Syndrome <-> "Normality" <-> Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder <-> Psychopathy

I have both ADHD and Asperger's Syndrome. I also have a math learning disability (dyscalcula).

The Adhd-Autism Connection: A Step Toward More Accurate Diagnoses and Effective Treatments is one big argument for ADHD's being on the autistic spectrum. Beside that, reading it made me feel that I'm not a freak, and that I have a place in the world.

***

I don't know about anybody else, but the diagnostic criteria for ADHD don't even remotely apply to me. However, my mother, who also has some AS traits, has many ADHD symptoms, as well. I would say that any connection between ADHD and AS is tenuous, at best.

I think that many facets of autism have a corresponding disorder that is slightly related. If you look at a few of the facets individually:

attention-related: ADD/ADHD
obsessive interests/passions: obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD)
gross and fine motor skill impairments: dyspraxia
sensory: sensory integration dysfunction (SID)

None of these match exactly the differences/difficulties in ASDs, but they all are slightly related to them.

The major commonality in ASDs that does not appear to have a related disorder is the difficulty in communication and socialization. I've never heard of a disorder only impacting communication and socialization skills. (Sensory conditions such as blindness, deafness, and dumbness impact communication but only in a way related to the absence of a sense) Granted all of the above disorders include difficulties in socialization and communication, but none of them to the extent of autism. There are social phobias and anxieties but that is very different from understanding social rules and interacting socially. There are also personality disorders, but again that is very different. I think that autism occurs as a result of a high number of genes, some of which are shared in the other conditions. That is likely where the commonalities arise.

ADHD in particular should not be described as simply milder autism. I have read of many kids with ADHD who have much more severe problems fitting in with the world around them than their siblings with AS. Many aspies and auts I've met share a strong interest in meeting and getting to know other people on the spectrum due to the common bond. People with ADD/ADHD I know do not seem to have this nor due they feel very strong at all about reading about ADD/ADHD. Given my own experiences cannot be generalized, but it just doesn't seem right to me to put ADHD on the spectrum. ADHD in my opinion is a distant cousin, but nothing more.

I think they are very different. My younger brother and sister both have ADHD diagnoses.

I originally had an ADD diagnisis, because I have never been hyperactive. But, that never fit. Some of the symptoms are the same, but they could never provide an explanation for the struggles I had as a kid.

My younger brother and sister are completely 180* from me. They are both very popular, and make very impulsive decisions. I don't feel I've made a decision that was impulsive in my entire life, merely decisions based on incorrect information about how the world works.

I've never been able to relate to them.

I say yes in the sense that I feel as though I connect with a lot of NT's who have ADHD on a much less altered and natural level as opposed to a lot of NT's who don't. Then again, the fact that I have it myself may have something to do with that.

ADD and ADHD are characterized by an inability to think about one thing for an extended period of time. AS and autism are characterized by extreme obsession. They sound pretty unrelated to me.