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Hi folks,
I've just now read some wonderful posts on this forum that have helped me so much so let me start by saying thank you all!
My question is in regards to my 6-year-old son. He hasn't officially been diagnosed with Asperger's but it's clear to us and his neurologist. He had a brain tumor removed at age 3.5 and is epileptic so we believe the Asperger's to be secondary to a medical condition. Because he already receives special education services including speech and OT, we are not looking for an official diagnosis at this point.
He has sensory integration disorder, motor planning issues, minor speech delays and mild gross and fine motor delays. He is a great great kid. He's got an intense interest in history and shows lots of affection to me and his dad. He's never had many friends and has always had difficulty socializing. We've just received test results that show deficits in coding and processing as well as several other areas though his vocabulary is excellent. We're about to pull him out of school to homeschool him due to his serious anxiety around school (and "friends" have begun to pick on him). He's told me that the work is too hard and his class is too big but his behavior in class is excellent. But he's just not thriving and is way behind in reading and writing.
Anyhow, my question has to do with his imagination. He has always had an active imagination and has loved to play pretend. I understand that this is not typical in kids with autism spectrum disorders? Do any of your kids have very healthy active imaginations?
I ask because it's the only thing that's really holding back my fully embracing the ASD diagnosis. Sorry for the length of this post and thanks for reading and any help you can provide.
Carolyn in Maine

That would be a first in my experience.

I think this is one of those things that had confused us as well: DS has an overly active imagination, sometimes infringing on his relationship with reality. His play is almost exclusively imaginative, which is starting to be a problem in 4th grade, when boys tend to turn to more concrete play like sports.

DS often (not always, but specifically when other kids are involved) uses his imaginative play in a very rigid, scripted manner (which other kids understandably interpret as "bossy.") Sometimes this type of imaginative play can be a clue: is your child experimenting with real-life scripts? For instance, does he seem to be directing a theatrical piece where he is exploring the nuances and language of each part? This can be one way kids with social deficits can practice and work out some of their confusion; it's like a 3-D interactive chess game where they explore each social possibility. Unfortunately, most kids do not like being pawns in a real-life version of SIMS, and it understandably causes social stress.

However, DS also is imaginative in ways that have nothing to do with socializing or other kids: he once started a story about a robot that had some number of arms and legs and was able to be programmed to do all the chores DS didn't like to do.

Last edited by momsparky on 07 Jan 2011, 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't have a formal diagnosis - but in almost fifty-two years, AS is the only answer that can explain even half of the strange issues I've struggled with all my life. And I always had an imagination. I struggled with that, too, before I realised that AS, like any other human variation, has variations. And, since the "experts" don't seem to fully understand what goes on in our heads (this is not just me; I posted things I thought they were wrong on, and many others with formal diagnoses said, yes, they experienced the same things I did), I'm not even sure how right they are on the lack of imagination. I think it may simply be a different form of imagination. Either way, I have far too many traits for it to be coincidence, and yet I do have a very active imagination. In fact, in my case, that was the only major issue which doesn't appear to match the official description - from the outside. (Example; people call me aloof and distant, even though that is not what I'm feeling in here. There are a lot of us on here like that.)

And I found your mention of his advanced vocabulary interesting. I am firmly on the hyperlexic side of things, so it is possible that there is some connection between this attribute and imagination. Being hyperlexic is common but far from universal among those with AS"D"s.

If your son is anything much like me, I truly feel for him. I am not the typical AS stereotype; I am good with math and computers - but find them much too limiting for my mind, sort of like thinking with a straitjacket. So I'm a bit of an oddball even here - although this site is the one and only place I have found a group of people I at least three-quarters resemble and understand. And on writers' sites, where the NT writers come and say things like "Oh, thank God, I thought I was crazy until I found this site", the others understand the writing aspects of my personality, but think I'm an utter alien otherwise. I've come to consider myself an outcast among the outcasts...

I think that's a myth perpetrated by psychologists who can't recognize creativity if it isn't expressed in ways that meet their predefined expectations. I have always had an active and creative imagination. The only jobs I ever had that I could stay focused on were ones that demanded a high level of creativity.

First, I'm not sure that AS is secondary to anything. It may simply be co-morbid in his particular case.

It is a common misconception that children on the spectrum have no imagination. This is not true at all for children with AS, and I doubt it's true for children with MFA/HFA.

Children and adults with AS can be quite creative. You'll find that many here are avid creative writers.

The misconception that those on the spectrum have no imagination comes from the fact that children on the spectrum, more often children with autism rather than AS specifically, tend to play with toys and objects in a different manner than most children would. For example, the child may line up their toys rather than actually play with them.

Additionally, some children, usually young children with HFA, and people with LFA/MFA have theory of mind issues. A triangle is a triangle, nothing else. A video of a small triangle being chased by a big triangle is just triangles moving around. Not sentient beings in some type of battle.

However children with AS don't usually have this issue.

For the child who stacks things, I don't really think this indicates a lack of imagination. Rather I think the child does not express their imagination.

One parent on here seemed distress that her child would take his toys, and rather play with them as was intended by the nature of the toy, he would arrange them into a solar system. That takes a good deal of imagination.

He was imagining the toys to be something other than what they really were.

I am willing to bet children on the spectrum actually spend more time imagining things that NT children...they have more time on their hands for it.

I am extremely creative--but I did not display any creativity in writing for English classes until my very last high school English class, because I didn't grasp what the teachers were looking for. Because our minds work differently, we often miss the obvious. Similarly, we can be right, but so far out of the mainstream that most NTs don't see the connection. Fortunately, I had a gift for taking tests, so I scored nearly 1400 on my SATs, despite my relative disinterest in English and writing.

the diagnostic criteria for asd requires a certain number of given traits. yes, impairment in spontaneous make believe play is one of the criteria, but you do not have to meet that specific criteria to fulfill that section. it is a possible diagnostic trait, not a required one.

also keep in mind, there is NOTHING in the asperger's criteria about spontaneous make believe play, that criteria is only for classic autism.

my youngest has classic autism, and while he didnt pretend play until later than usual, his imagination is very full and active. my oldest was just given an educational diagnosis of asperger's, and he is a VERY imaginative child, even more so than my middle NT child.

My 5.5 yr old ASD son does have an imagination. It was just delayed. Sometimes, his imagination seems so great that I too wonder if he is in touch with reality.

My 15 yo son has always had the most incredible imagination.

So it seems that the psychologists simply lack the imagination to see that we have imaginations, too? Or perhaps something is wrong with their "theory of mind"...

I have a six year old that was just diagnosed and well his imagination is very active almost scary. He LOVES Thomas the tank Engine and well his brain basically lives On the Island of Sodor with the trains. It is a scary concept for me because as he gets older is he going to continue to live there in his mind?

My daughter also has a very active imagination. But it seems to be "different" from her peers. They like to play with objects the way in which they are intended-for instance play barbies, or school, or with toys in the fashion the are made. My daughter seems to be imaginative in playing with objects not in the way they are intended to be played with, or differently than intended. She can play with sand forever, which most kids would find boring. In the ADOS, they were looking for "typical" imaginative play. When given the plates and candles for the birthday party, she had no interest in a birthday party and instead began playing with the plates as though they were flying saucers. And she plays "in her own head" most of the time. A child she has known since birth (my best friend's daughter who was born 2 months after my daughter) will very clearly want to play with my daughter together-like saying "let's play school" or "let's play barbies". While my daughter will entertain the notion for a moment or so it very quickly turns into my daughter wanting to dictate the terms of the "imaginary" play-ie she makes up the storyline and only wants the other girl to do as she says-so there is no joint evolution of the play. And it is usually not in the typical fashion of playing dolls, etc so the other children lose interest quickly.

I hope this makes sense and helps describe how imaginary play, at least with my daughter, is a little different in AS kids.

I have talked with a lot of autistic people and I have yet to meet a single one which didn't have an imagination. The reason for the false belief that autistic people lack imaginations is that the 'experts' are looking for a predefined, and narrow view of what imagination is.

For example, if you just leave a normal child alone, then he will pretend to be a dog, and go around barking. Or a young girl might dress up and pretend to play princess. By comparison, an autistic person will just sit in the corner and stare off into space. Your typical psychologist will see this and think, "Ahh, I clearly see that this autistic child is lacking in imagination." But that is only because his imagination can't be directly observed. What do you think the child is doing when he is staring off into space? Do you think his mind is just completely blank? Of course not, he is off in his own world day dreaming about whatever he wants to day dream about. He isn't lacking in imagination, he is just doing it internally.

But the problem is that psychologists don't actually know what is going on, and are more interested in pointing out symptoms of a disorder then actually understanding. And thus the false belief that 'autistic people lack imagination' is born. This really is one of the most annoying lies spread about autistic people, second only to the idea that they are emotionless and don't care about the well being of others.

So, yeah, the fact that your child has an imagination in no way detracts from the possibility of him having autism/Asperger's Syndrome.

This is why I love kids on the spectrum. How adorable is that!

I do get a bit indignant, apparently along with other folks here, with the implication that imagination is such a rigid construct - isn't the point of imagination to use your mind in an original and unusual way? The phrase "imaginative play" is another one, like "empathy" that is nonspecific to the point of extreme confusion, and which I believe causes prejudice against people on the spectrum.

I'm sure you're right, and it also causes confusion to anyone wondering if they are on the spectrum. I might have figured out I had AS (or HFA, or whatever they want to call it now; the label isn't the point) a lot sooner if the usual descriptions hadn't involved "lack of imagination" and "lack of empathy". Those who write the descriptions seem to lack both imagination and empathy. Despite our differences, they fail to imagine we might express imagination and empathy differently, and they fail to empathise with the hurt such descriptions can cause us.

I really don't think any progress is going to be made understanding those of us on the spectrum until the researchers talk to those of us who are on the spectrum, and take what we say seriously. We know what's going on inside our minds. They don't. They only know what they see, and they don't seem to be doing a very good job of interpreting that.