Mad Today

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Working through yet another self help book... social skills for Aspies. I find I am getting angrier and angrier. For years I have been blaming myself for not "fitting in", for not being able to read between the lines of what people say or don't say. I have been trying to fix myself because, after all, isn't it my fault that people don't mean what they say and say what they mean? I am tired.

And angry... like being NT is some great thing, when I see senseless NT murders and wars on TV. Do I really need to fit into their world? Do I really want to? I live in a world where I want my words mean something when I say them. Where I follow up what I say I will do. When I don't, I explain and apologize. I would not intentionally hurt someone. I don't take things from others. I don't play possum. Yet still I am alone because I lack the social skills to play the game and be the "maneater" that men accuse me of being, simply because I am female, warm and breathing. I am called manipulative when I don't respond to the game when I am in fact clueless to the game being played. I just don't see it.

Fitting into the NT world - at 15 mom threw me out of the house - she was tired of me. I lived in the car I bought, kept working and going to high school - continued the college classes I was dually enrolled in - was prey to all kinds of horrible situations living in that car simply because I am "defective" in social skills and couldn't tell the difference between a predator and a friend. In my world a 15 year old wouldn't need to know the difference between a pimp/drug dealer, 'cause she wouldn't be homeless in the first place. Years of experiences and layers of trauma from not knowing when I wasn't reading the signs until too late. Signs I didn't even know needed to be read.

No, nanny and fancy boarding school for this Aspie.

Am I the only woman that has been through this?

Yeah. I've been through quite a bit, too. But my mother isn't NT. I don't think she's on the spectrum but there's something wrong with her. We don't know what because she refuses to go to a doctor or admit she's imperfect. I wasn't thrown out when I was 15 but left willingly when I was 16. I guess her version of throwing me out was to stop caring for me after I turned 14 so I was self-sufficient. By the time I was 16, I felt ready to have my own place and saw no need to stay. I had an older boyfriend so we moved in together. Thus started a whole series of bad decisions; but, that aside, I identify with a lot of what you've said.

I wish I had a dime for every time I was called "manipulative" or accused of "baiting". It's entirely unfair and really leaves me dumbfounded. Thank God I have straight-talking friends that I can share stuff with and if I misbehaved in a discussion, they would tell me exactly where I went wrong, even if it was unintentional. Sometimes, they can't find where I've done anything wrong. That actually sucks worse because it means they are the ones with the problem, which means there's nothing I can do to make things better. It's all with them.

I've been there, although I am just physically very ill for the last seven years and got little support from most of the direct family members.

(male by the way)

I've been working hard for four years on social skills before I got some real results, for me it sucked like hell to plow through all those trail-and-error plus literature about social skills.
I guess I am now at the point I can walk and talk like a non-autistic and get less fuss about the superfical markers to odd behaviour, but this doesn't make me one - it just gets the unwanted attention off me.

Finding people who accept you or are likewise could help.
Autism/HFA/Aspergers talk groups? Intellectuals? Hobby clubs? Roleplaying/Theater groups?

I am a guy and I can say that I've heard the same things. I have been called manipulative when I have simply been honest and not feed them a line of bs. People seem to want to attribute their own tendencies onto me then blame me for their inability to get a correct read on me. I have had relationships end over misunderstandings. What I say is usually what I mean. I don't see the complication.

The biggest issue I have had is at work at certain jobs. Some people seem to look at my differences and want to make me the scapegoat. I am amazed that I will get fingered for something that is missing or is broken when everytime it has been shown that I had nothing to do with it. In fact, I usually end up getting stuck fixing whatever someone screwed up because I have a knack for it. But the next time, you can be sure that somebody will try to shift the blame towards me.

I think you have to roll with the punches and be clear and stand up for yourself. Few people accept responsibility for anything that isn't positive and they will look for a reason for it to be your fault. My biggest concern is that I am going to turn bitter and cynical as I get older. People can drag you down to their level if you let them.

I have been through many situations because I couldn't tell a predator from a friend, so many times that I now am worried about being paranoid! In all fairness, I seem to have come across many crazy self absorbed people, many not ones you choose to be around, neighbors, co workers, teachers, etc.
I have often come back to the desire to be diagnosed with something to explain things, be vindicated somehow.

Wow, such amazing things from the posts. Here I was thinking I am out in left field. Wallourdes, I call that getting the unwanted attention off me "duck and run". These last few years really worked on blending and melding with the general public. But all this makes me really not want to know anyone. Last year I did a trial run of dating that ended horribly with his issuse and my not being able to read cues. Course when your psyche is going haywire from sensory overload...not much I could do at the time. I was pretty clueless. I want more than superficial, but I am learning we don't always get what we want.

Sluice, I think life works so much better to just say what you mean and mean what you say. That part of standing up for yourself would be great if it weren't 2 days later in realizing it - or 2 years. I am working hard to not be cynical - but lately, I am plain tired. And kind of lonely. Wish I had the kind of friends the Wefunction wrote about. I tend to take reponsibility for other people's actions. I guess the scapegoat thing becomes familiar.

I don't feel like anything is fixed, but I appreciate hearing people's experience. A little less isolated. A little less lonely. Thanks

No, you're not. Most of them (in the historical context) have lived and died without knowing that there was something else going on. You just do what you can do, learn what you can from it and hope for a better break next time around.

My ex called me passive-aggressive quite a bit, but she was assuming a lot. I can usually keep a conversation going, if necessary for politeness, but I don't find much middle ground between boring and scary. Too often, I meet people who just want to talk. I keep an egg timer handy in case I decide to impose order on them.

I used to get angry and blame others as not letting me into their life and not wanting to be with me for this reason or that. Then when I lived alone I blamed others for not wanting to be with me. I did this despite the fact I had enjoyable moments of socialising with people throughout my life, and I got invited to friends homes and occasionally parties, especially when younger.

After therapy I realised I was using blame to displace my loneliness, and my feelings of inadequacy, and the tension between social anxiety and wanting friendship and lovers. By acknowledging and processing these feelings I realise I cannot blame others for my failings.

As for fitting in, I have milder AS and have learned skills for dealing with NTs, but I fell into the psychological trap that I had to "pass" to have friends and be accepted. I now feel angry when it seems I have to "pass" to get acceptance, I've developed to the point I want to be myself, to be accepted for being myself and not some persona I have to front up with to be accepted. Yet now that I have AS friends I realise that I have to put my "NT skills" aside when around them and be myself (within reason), mimicking rapport and using facial expressions and euphemisms can be more confusing to someone with AS than speaking literally and communicating simply.

I've realised I get over-enthusiastic about socialising with women but under-enthusiastic about socialising with men. My under-enthusiasm has improved, it's from not picking up on the enthusiasm expressed by friends and my father when socialising with me, while picking up on negative feelings more. With women it's attraction-based and I have to put myself in their shoes, as a friend (and nothing else), to understand their perspective and wants and needs of the friendship. It's takes work but I am finding that by processing and challenging this, I can find a more balanced enthusiasm around both men and women. It takes time due to my slower processing speed with emotions (typical!) but I can get there

it seems to me that many of the social rules of NT's involve lying. Yet all the big religious books and such have "not lying" as one of their most important rules. Maybe because many NT's lie all the time they need such a rule?

Someone asks you how you are, you're supposed to answer "fine"- even if its a lie. Someone asks you if those pants make them look fat, you're supposed to lie and say "no". Someone asks you if you like their hairstyle or their new article of clothing and even if its hideous you're supposed to lie and say "Great". And it seems to me that there are many more complex social games that get played that involve even more social lies.

Yes, if they handed out dollars every time we got accused of being passive aggressive, manipulative, ungrateful or mean, when in fact we just didn't catch on to the lying games, we'd all be rich.

I feel physically ill and blush if I lie on purpose, like if I compliment someone who asks how I like their new haircut and it looks like someone mowed them with a lawnmower. So even when I try to play the game, my face gives me away.

I know, right? I just don't get that part. Not just in romance, either. Could it be NTs have rules so they know when they break them? Then they can all sorts of repercussions such as guilt, shame, more lying, more dishonesty and all those crappy feelings to relish. I like rules because they give me a clue. Well sort of. It's just that so few people follow anything resembling a moral code. I try to go with the flow and end up feeling worse because the flow seems so polluted, my code becomes corrupted.

It is so much easier to be enlightened when sitting at the top of a mountain, away from the flow of humanity.

But honestly, I don't think I would want to be NT the next time around. There is little glimmer and little spark in so many "normal" faces. If my perseverence and childlike hope, albeit sometimes transient and shaky, is considered a factor of neurological dysfunction, than okay.

Blue pill - red pill