Something I overheard in a store

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I wrote "child in a grocery store" threads before, where I show things from a child's point of view, and demonstrate how unfair things may seem to them. This thread, as you'll see, will be different.

One day, I was doing my usual grocery shopping, when I overheard the following conversation between a mother and her son. The son looked elementary school age. It was a busy day, and I an aisle was backed up. This is what transpired.
Son: "Can I get this bag of candy?" (holding a bag of Swedish fish)
Mother: "No, I'm already buying you those fish sticks you asked for earlier."
Son: "But I really like it."
Mother: "That's totally fine, but we're not buying them."
Son: "Please!"
Mother: "Before we went inside, we agreed that you'll ask for only one thing. You chose the fish sticks, and now you're asking for something else. You're breaking a promise, that's not good. Now, I want you to put those back, so we can continue shopping."
Son: [begrudgingly] "OK."

I must say, that mother's choice of words was brilliant. Most kids, with a possible exception of preteens, will not have a good understanding of family budgeting. My counterargument was always: "If you won't buy me candy for $1.99, why are you buying yourself coffee for $5.99? (Now I fully understand that, since I can't function at work without coffee, lol.) And kids generally view "it's not healthy" as a stock phrase for preventing kids from eating too many things that taste good. At the same time, nearly all but the very youngest kids understand the concept of a promise. Apparently that mother knew that, and she stood her ground in a way her son could understand. That's all; just wanted to share something positive.

Thanks very much for sharing that, Aspie1!

We usually do the same setup in a store for my son - either he gets to choose nothing, or he gets to choose one thing and gets a budget for it. I like the "promise" way of phrasing it; I will remember that (though usually my son is pretty good about sticking to an agreement.)

Glad you liked it. I like using the word "promise" better than "agreement". It's simpler, and it's something kids are more likely to understand. (Think of how kids always say to each other "but you promised!".) I used that angle when I worked as a swim instructor. I'd say: "I promise I won't let you go unless you say the word"; that, for some reason, convinced them try a new stroke that they otherwise refused. And I agree that monetary limits are better than quantity limits, in other words, $5 vs. 1 item. Quantity limits teaches kids to go for the most expensive item(s). With monetary limits, kids can compare the value of getting two boxes of $2.49 candy they feel so-so about vs. one box of $4.99 candy they really like.

Last edited by Aspie1 on 16 Jan 2011, 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nice to hear about some positive parenting examples. I like the way the mom handled it, very similar to what we have done in the past.

I had a similar experience of appreciating some parenting when listening to a mom in dealing with her autistic son at archery class. He wasn't participating in the class, but was waiting for his sister and was having an increasingly hard time waiting, as the batteries in his Nintendo DS had run out. He was on the verge of meltdown and getting increasingly loud. She just kept calmly and firmly, yet in a very kind tone repeating her expectations clearly and simply again and again. She let him know how many minutes were left, and suggested a couple of strategies to him, and reminded him of the reward they had agreed on for after. He just barely managed to keep it together, and I was really proud of her and of him!

The kid was on a fish kick.

great story

Great story I know when I was much younger my mother always just told us no and never gave a reason other than "because im your mom and I said so" it drove me nuts

I pinky promise with my son for extra solidification. It works great, especially after a negotiation which also works well for him. It gets to the promise easier, gives him some control, and teaches him to negotiate which is a really good skill to have, and it also teaches him to compromise and accept less that what you want and still be happy.

I like to hear good mom stories

Great story! Wish my kid wanted fish sticks instead of candy.

Well, its not totalitarian, but it still seams to me quite manipulative. Why buy just one thing? And it wasn't a real promise, the choices offered where horrible( probably, you promise or nothing).

This way he will be more demanding in the future because he expect a sneaky no. And he is demanding in the present because of all the past nos.

If you show them respect, they will actually listen you by them selves. You let them free to eat all the candy they want, you ask them not to eat to many candy because its unhealthy, and they will actually do it. By the way if you tell that, while you don't respect your own body( your smoking or something like that), they will not take you seriously, setting the good example is more important then what you say.

By the way, i'm a believer of radical unschooling.

Yes, it is manipulative. But look at it this way, from the son's point of view. He can agree to get only one item and have a 100% chance of getting it, be it fish sticks or candy. Or he can try asking for more than one item, and have only a 25% chance of getting each one, or worse, lose everything because he ticked off his mother. Clearly, the son will be more willing to agree to a sure thing. After all, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. We all have to settle and compromise in many areas of our lives, so might as well learn that lesson early on.

When you have almost no power because of your smaller size, lesser intellectual abilities, and almost zero income, negotiating for what you can get in a store really isn't an option, and there's really no other choice except to take what you can get. If that seems satisfactory to the child, more power to him, I suppose. After all, being cooperative and getting one desired item is far better than angering the decision-maker and getting nothing at all.

ive never met a child who functioned like this. my own certainly dont. you cant let a child have as much candy as they want and simply ask them not to eat too much, all that will get you is a sick child and candy wrappers hidden all over the house. kids arent born with self control, its something they learn and develop as they grow. even adults lack self control much of the time, thats why so many of us have vices (food, drink, cigarettes, etc).

does this actually work with your kids?

Ditto to the above. Are you a parent?

You have it backwards, they react to the lack of freedom. If they lack freedom they rebel just for rebellion sake. Having power(rebelling) is very important psychologically, more important then getting sick by too much candy. If they do have freedom they don't need to rebel, and they actually listen. You react to there reaction to your previous reaction etc.... You can break the cycle by small increments, at first they will take advantage of the freedom as you say, but after a while they will settle to a lower level of rebellion.

If you don't believe me, try experimenting with little but big enough increments, if you do it right you'll notice an improvement. Parenting like this is much more involved mentally, so i recommend reading on radical unschooling (the name is unfortunate).

This is not BS, the exact same thing happens with adults, good managers take that in too account when they manage people.

@momsparky
No, but i did have parents.

I wanted to chime in here because while I am not a "radical" unschooler, I am an unschooler and I have found that my ASD kid DOESN"T respond to these methods AT ALL. Now mind you, this is only my kid and I am not speaking for everyone. My daughter fully believes that if she wants something she will have it. No consequences, or repercussions. No consideration to anyone else. If she wants the candy by God, she's gonna get it or everyone is going to pay LOL. I can tell her till I'm blue in the face that the candy is bad for her and she refuses to believe it because she wants it and it makes her happy so how can it be bad. I have lived by positive example and always allowed her to make choices and talked to her rationally as an adult. I spent most of her life believing that she would eventually pick up the values and embrace them for her own but it's been 13 years and now I have a child who believes that the world revolves around her, some of that is ASD traits (that I have come to understand may portray her that way even though she might be thinking differently) and some of that is having directed her own life and choices up to this point. She refuses to do anything that she doesn't want to and no reason that wasn't self-generated isn't good enough to change her mind. It takes all my patience and tears to deal with this, and you know, I am glad to do it, but unfortunately I have had to admit to myself that radical unschooling has done dis-service to my ASD daughter when it comes to everyday life. I still believe though that unschooling for her education is the way to go. Anyway, it's my two cents, sorry to be the nay sayer. Not a role I embrace for sure, but we're all trying to help each other here so I just wanted to give my side for consideration.

Drapetomaniac, respectfully - I have heard this theory many times and have never seen it work in practice, though you'd be surprised the number of parents who believe in it.

However, children are NOT adults, the prime difference being that children, especially small children, do not have an understanding of long-term consequences. I've seen the consequences of permissive parenting - a friend's child pretty much plays video games and watches TV whenever he's not in school...and is allowed to eat whatever he wants (though I do believe he's got some sensory issues with food, which I understand.) Let's just say this young man is not using his freedom to explore how to better take care of himself.

I agree that this may work well with adults - but children are not tiny adults. The theory of management you mention depends on self-discipline - and people learn self-discipline by being disciplined by their parents when they are young.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/ ... 9289.shtml