How much do we forgive each other?

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Sometimes I see comments on these forums that wind me up a little bit. I'm not talking about the trolls, just day to day conversation. I think about it a little and then I realise that what I'm seeing is what NTs see from us all the time; someone's communicated in an 'autistic' way, a way that neglects to think of the feelings of the other people, but it was not intended to offend. So once I work that out, I can forgive it, but I wonder if I should maybe point it out, that sometimes people take those things the wrong way.

You'd think we might be more automatically understanding and forgiving of other people's autie moments, but I guess it doesn't quite work like that.

Maybe I'm a bit thick for not noticing this phenomenon yet

When I stop and think about it, I think it's surprising that we all seem to get on reasonably well together here.

Well, i tend to forgive other people easily, especially on here, because i know how i am. I just pushed a very offensive line of thought on the parenting forum for 2 days in a row, and only realised this evening that the weird reactions i was getting were linked to the fact they had felt insulted. And once faced with the huge stupidity of what i had said (if taken at face value, which i was not doing in my mind) , i apologised, but am not expecting much out of it, i just corrected myself and learnt from it, that's good enough for me
Actually , i think we do forgive more to each other on this site than anywhere else.
edit to say: i have no idea if we should point out the mistakes we make to each other. We would learn from it, but wouldn't it break the "haven " feeling that we have around here? as in, not speaking NT is still acceptable here, shouldn't it remain this way?

Hmmm.......over the past few months I've wondered about this expected tendency of Aspies to feel more tolerant of Aspie behaviour than NTs would.

I see the obvious mechanisms - Aspies don't usually have the common NT problem of disbelief and unawareness of the condition. The fact that an Aspie will quite likely have experienced many of another Aspie's problems first-hand means that the Aspie "empathy problem" might not cause much trouble between Aspies. And there's also the likely feeling of comradeship because we're part of the same misunderstood underclass.

But I've also noticed, in my own case, that fellow Aspies in real life can annoy me significantly, even when I can see how their behaviour is coming from their impairments. I think sometimes the traits of 2 Aspies can make things worse - e.g. I have difficulty in appreciating that other people don't necessarily know what I know, so if an Aspie who can't put himself into my shoes comes along, I can feel very angry about that, and sometimes long for a neurotypical who might be able to fathom my feelings and say the right thing. I also hate being "cut across" in conversation, because once I'm locked onto a topic I want to be listened to, and can't easily switch to something unrelated. Also, when a member of my music group went missing, I felt concern and disappointment, while the other Aspie seemed to feel nothing, and just pragmatically switched from "trio" to "duo" mode as if we'd never jammed with the missing musician. I just thought, "you heartless bastard!" He's a good musician too, but there's something I love about the life and soul of music that just doesn't seem to impinge on him.

I feel terrible about having these feelings towards my own breed, but I don't let it get out of hand, and at least they give me some kind of insight into how we come over to NTs. Time was when I felt that NTs with Aspie partners were just griping about feeling unloved when all they had to do was to take the poor Aspie a bit more literally, explain properly what they want, and make a few adjustments for the condition. But I've read a lot since then, and I've had a glimpse or two of just how difficult that can be.

I am a forceful personality. I need to be forgiven more often than forgive. I hold nothing against anyone I have ever interacted with on this site (trolls excluded), but do not think the same can be said by all of them about me.

Quoting from Jim Sinclair's 'AUTISM NETWORK INTERNATIONAL: THE DEVELOPMENT OF A COMMUNITY AND ITS CULTURE':
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"In February 1992 Donna Williams came to the U.S. to promote her first book, Nobody Nowhere. During her trip, she took a few days away from the book tour to visit with Kathy Lissner (now Kathy Grant) and me, two of the autistic people she had been corresponding with through the penpal list. I drove to St. Louis, Missouri, where Kathy lived, and we all stayed together in Kathy's apartment.

Donna's description of that visit can be found on pages 184-187 of her second book, Somebody Somewhere. We spent two or three days together, in a place where everyone was autistic, and where there were only three of us instead of a large crowd. We were all somewhat familiar with each other through our written correspondence; Kathy and I had also met briefly in person at a conference or two. The combination of these factors produced a new kind of autistic encounter that was vastly different from meeting other autistic people at NT conferences. Donna's description of the experience reads in part:

Despite thousands of miles, our 'our world' concepts, strategies, and experiences even came down to having created the same made-up words to describe them. Together we felt like a lost tribe. 'Normal' is to be in the company of one like one's self.
[]
We all had a sense of belonging, of being understood, of being normal . . . all the things we could not get from others in general. It was so sad to have to leave. 'Why can't we all live together?' we had each asked at some point or other. (p. 186)

My own recollection of this meeting is of feeling that, after a life spent among aliens, I had met someone who came from the same planet as me. We understood each other. At one point I overheard Donna talking on the phone to someone associated with her book tour. Apparently the caller had asked her something about how the visit was going. I heard Donna's answer: "We don't get a lot of cooking done, but we speak the same language."

It was an amazing and powerful experience to be able to communicate with someone in my own language. I had sometimes been able to establish meaningful communication with people before, but it always involved my having to learn the other person's language and do constant laborious translating. (Sinclair, 1988) Here, with people who shared my language, meaning flowed freely and easily".
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The complete article is here:
http://www.autreat.com/History_of_ANI.html

Good point! Thank you for giving people the opportunity to talk about this.
I feel that Im offending people almost every time I open my mouth.
Excuse me please
I really dont mean to and I dont have anything against anybody at all; on the contrary: Im so happy to read all your post and to have the opportunity to relate in some way

I try to be charitable, but I know that sometimes I could do a better job.

My best friend has AS an I'm for the most part easy on him out of sympathy...if something does irritate me I'm usually nice about it. I help him be a better person using what I learn about life. I just don't have the nerve to stoop to the level of people who constantly yelled at me if I did something to irritate them and prefer the more compassionate approach. It's not easy but it's better than being like most people that I know.

Last edited by raisedbyignorance on 21 Jan 2011, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I try to forgive others as soon as I can. I don't want to die leaving someone unforgiven.

Last edited by Jonsi on 22 Jan 2011, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I thought so too, when I first came here, but after doing a LOT more reading about Asperger Syndrome, I came to understand it's just part of our nature. What I see here in terms of conflict just reinforces what I've learned. It's not surprising at all to me anymore, and explains why this kind of thing is mentioned in the rules. Once you learn enough about AS, you get to the point where you pretty much expect it.

Everyone here is on a different portion of the learning curve. I've found that there's an art to avoiding it. For me, not spending too much time here has been the key. Using a bit of "hit and run" mentality also helps. These days, I just pick a few key topics that catch my eye, post an answer, maybe post a quick question or revelation if I have one, leave quickly, and don't come back for a few days.

Another thing I've done that has helped a LOT is I've created a rule (or filter) in my email client that sends ALL forum alerts into a separate folder in my client so they aren't popping up all the time in my inbox, enticing me to spend too much time here. Spending too much time in one sitting, I've found (at least for me), can tend to get me into altercations. Now that I've been doing this for a while, my time spent here is so much more enjoyable!

Give and Get topic

I do not forgive certain acts by humans if done deliberately, and with malicious intent. Such evildoers do not care either, as they do not see their actions as evil.

I let the anger go, because I do not want it festering. This way I can move on.

Never. No one. Even people here. I will eventually get over my anger but can't look at the same person again in the same way before they said something insulting.
Sorry but that's the way I am.

I have a rebelious streak that makes it a little harder for me to forgive some members. If the offense is mild, It takes a week. If the offense is strong, It takes a month or two for me to come around. If the injustice is overbearing, a topic could pop up that reminds me of the offense, years later. All that I can do is give that person advice not to make their breakup change who they are, as a person and for them to keep being themself.

Honestly, I've been long over how people are gonna be on here (considering this is my second account on WP since I was pushed to quit shortly after the first time I joined). And if something offends or angers me, I just let it roll off my shoulders. We're not all going to agree with everything. I just live with it and move on. Besides, I can't take the internet all that seriously anymore...or maybe I never did. Who knows?

It's a good point to consider.
I tend to be a bit on the sensitive side and take things personally sometimes, but I do try to give the benefit of the doubt. And sometimes I just forget why I was angry with someone in the first place.
There have been occasions where I've held long grudges, but only when someone really offended me. I can only think of one instance like that at the moment, and it wasn't here.

1) I've been one to 'straight shoot' about everything, as I have a habit to minimize or overlook possible entrenched feelings. I believe the facts are first and everything should adjust around "that."

2) My light approach to matters has made others to think that everything is a joke by me, and that "I just am not serious enough."

Last edited by Mdyar on 25 Jan 2011, 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.