Question for the Aspies - Imagination vs. Reality

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When you were younger, did you have a problem with your imagination overtaking a good portion of your day to day life? DS is 7 and as a very active imagination. When he's in his zone, it's hard to pull him out of it. For example, he developed on obsession with being a superhero and would tell anyone who could listen that he worked for a rescue agency and he can rescue people. He thought that if a house was on fire, he would run in and save everyone, until I pointed out that he could die because he's not a fireman. Another example is that he's started his own "school" and makes up worksheets, schedules, attendence sheets etc and says he works at MontaSchool and even at his own school he'll refuse to do the work, or insist he's the teacher. This isn't a random passing fantasy, it takes up a large portion of his day. He also loves machines and to pass anyone anything, he can't just pass it, he has to have sound effects, motorized movement etc.

Is this a common Aspie trait?

If you experienced something similar, was it something you outgrew, or learned how to manage? My concern is that the team that gave him his Aspie diagnosis said that we should watch him closely for possible psychosis in the future. That seems far fetched to me but then again maybe I think that just because I'm his Mum. Who knows.

I don't try to "control" his imagination and his creativity. I love every Aspie trait about him, even the ones that frustrate me from time to time. But I do struggle with helping him to understand that there is a time and place for it, kwim?

Not officially diagnosed with AS myself (my son is HFA) but I have OCD (from childhood) and had quite a fantasy/imagination and could play quietly by myself for hours. My son also likes to play involving his obsessions and I typically go along with it. When my son was younger he had a obsession with bottle return machines. They fascinated him and were pretty much all he wanted to focus on. One afternoon he was determined to go to the store with some pop cans and so I made him one out of a large appliance box we had. He thought it was the most beautiful thing as I labeled it and made it as professional looking as a cardboard box could get. He would "return" bottles and cans complete with all the sound effects (lol).

I think it is unusual for the doctors to suggest that he needs to be watched for evidence of psychosis just because he likes to play involving his obsessions and makes sound effects. Sounds like alot of typical autism spectrum type play to me. Along with not understanding about things like not being a real superhero. That is normal thinking for younger kids and I think there needs to be some adjustment for that when we look at their behavior. It doesn't mean they are out of touch with reality, but that it is just a different development of thinking because they have some of the emotional intelligence of a younger child. One person told me roughly it can be like 3 or 4 years behind their chronological age (just for an example). So really it would be perfectly normal for a 3 or 4 year old to think they could do superhero things. If you try and stop that natural progression in development I wonder of some of the other "issues" that are common to ASDs come into play - like OCD or anxiety or depression. Just pondering though not offering medical advice. I think you are right to be concerned about their interpretation of his play - I would get a second opinion maybe because it might be that some on the team may have a biased view of ASDs or have read someone's latest theory or something.

Depends on the aspie, but I think all male aspies develop some sort of fantasy life because of their social isolation, the more isolated they are the more they daydream and the more the fantasy takes over. IMHO...



Well I daydream ALL the darn time, about stupid kind of things like a kid would... and as for the team saying about possible psychosis.. yes it is possible, but let me tell you why...

Aspergers have such obssessive and focused thinking that they are IMMENSELY creative inside their mind, many aspies hide it, but an aspies mind is ON all the time... there is not atime where they are not thinking or daydreaming... other aspies express it differently depending on the degree of introversion or extraversion in the aspie... the fact your son is so open with his is a good sign in my opinion that he has a sense of fearlessness and lack of shame... which will help in his socialization later. The last thing you want is a timid fearful Aspie child, imho those are the ones most likely to suffer from psychosis due to isolation, lack of interest in socializing, and depression from lack of assertiveness to handle the many aspects of life.

The bad part is that... aspies obsessional thinking can "distort reality", and by "distort" I mean skew their perspectives if they have negative ideas, or a bad upbringing, or if aspies are exposed to the wrong kinds of ideas... they will take things 'seriously' and create entire worlds out of them in their heads.

If you would like to speak to me further I can explain, pm me if you wish.

When I was younger (between the ages of 4 and 8 ), I went through a phase where I would pretend that I lived and went to school on a space station and that the cars and buses I travelled in were space shuttles.
However, I was in no way hallucinating and recognized the reality of the situation: That I lived in a house in a town in Florida, went to school in a town in Florida, and travelled in buses and cars.
There was also a phase during that point where I enjoyed pretending that I lived in a different state, but I told my parents that I was simply pretending and they accepted both of these phases as stupid childhood fantasies rather than my actual perception of reality.
However, my imaginary play life lead to my diagnosis of AS in the first place: When I was little, I used to play a game with myself in which, in my imagination, if I did not escape the bathroom within a certain number of seconds after flushing the toilet, I would explode and die. My parents, unfortunately, did not ask for explanation and simply assumed that I was hypersensitive to the noise, and told my psychiatrist their belief on the matter.
However, if his behaviours to persist and become a serious problem, you may wish to put him on a Gluten Free/Casein Free (GF/CF) diet.
My unnatural obsessiveness with pretending that I was, say, on a space station, ceased at around the same time I was placed on said diet.
Another bit of evidence in favour of the GF/CF is that Gluten is a chemical found in wheat and similar grains, and some researchers believe that something in the grain grown in New England in the late 1600s may have caused the mass hysteria that surrounded Salem's witch trials, in which judges demanded to hear accounts of far-fetched and unrealistic crimes that they wholeheartedly believed in the existence of.
In any case, if your child's fantasies persist past the age of nine or so, you should take serious concern.
Also, to double-check his sanity, you should ask him if he actually believes what he says.
If his playlife does persist past the age of nine or ten, and if he does believe what he's saying, then you have a problem.
If not, just learn to accept that he's a little kid, behaving stupidly as small children are usually wont to do, and that you really shouldn't take concern.

I do not know where to begin on this topic.

I could lay on bed for hours on end with a toy car in hand making sounds and pretending I am driving the thing. I also did the imaginary school bus driver (I can hear snickers already on this one), teacher, and other professionals. I also would play with my legos on end.

This lasted until I was in my late teens (of course, I still do other imaginary things of that nature even as an adult).

[quote="walk-in-the-rain"]Sounds like alot of typical autism spectrum type play to me. Along with not understanding about things like not being a real superhero. That is normal thinking for younger kids and I think there needs to be some adjustment for that when we look at their behavior. It doesn't mean they are out of touch with reality, but that it is just a different development of thinking because they have some of the emotional intelligence of a younger child. One person told me roughly it can be like 3 or 4 years behind their chronological age (just for an example). So really it would be perfectly normal for a 3 or 4 year old to think they could do superhero things. If you try and stop that natural progression in development I wonder of some of the other "issues" that are common to ASDs come into play - like OCD or anxiety or depression. quote]

This is exactly what I keep going back to. I don't feel the need to be overly concerned about it at the age of 7 because he is immature in some ways. Although it is hard when he wants to be the teacher and he's at school.

Mordy - You brought up some very good points that I took to heart. Thank you for helping me see it from another perspective.

That was me, big time. Between ages 5 and 9, I completely transformed my daily life into a video game. The "game" design was extensive, compelete with levels, a timer, and a point counter. It's vaguely similar to The Sims and SimCity, combined with various features from Super Mario Brothers and Arkanoid. (Details are shown below, just for fun. Mind you, some of these games weren't even invented yet, and I already turned my life into them.) I kept this whole thing entirely to myself; no one except my stuffed animals (and now WP) knew about this.

For your enjoyment, here are a few aspects of the game. Keep in mind, they're about the game, not life as NTs see it.
I was the main character in the game, nagivating the everyday world.
Each place was a "location," such as school, home, friends' homes, relatives' homes, city streets, stores, public monuments, city buses, parks, etc. was classified as friendly, neutral, hostile, and very hostile.
Each person was an "inhabitant" of a particular location, and categorized as friendly, neutral, hostile, and very hostile. Some inhabitants could move between locations, like my parents, while others couldn't, like the store clerks. This is one of the reasons why I had difficulty with seeing people outside the usual context, such as seeing my teacher in a store.
I earned "life points" for doing things that helped me get praise from parents and teachers and let me avoid bullying; I lost "life points" for doing things that got me punished or bullied. For example, getting a good grade meant earning points (result: praise from the teacher and no punishment at home), while giving an overly pedantic answer in class meant losing points (result: bullying during lunch)
Some locations were time-driven, like my school, with classes, breaks, and a lunch; some were event-driven, like my home where I had to clean my room in order to watch TV; some were free-running, like my friends' apartment where I could simply be. Different locations fit into a different category, based on the criteria I assigned.
Each location had its own "obstacles," which were people or objects designed to get in the way of my game. My apartment had a chandelier I was scared of, my school had bullies, city streets had moving cars, stores had displays I couldn't touch, etc.
Each year of my life was treated a "level." Turning a year older was the same as passing a level in the game.
Sleep was a means of fast-forwarding the boring parts of the game. In other words, instead of just lying in bed for 8 hours, that time would go by in just 90 minutes, the time it took me to fall asleep.
And so much more, it would boggle an NT's mind.

Now as I look back on all this, I can't help but chuckle a little. It's amazing how much effort I put into organizing my world, an unnervingly chaotic place. It worked out fairly well in the end, although it took tremendous amounts of mental power. No wonder I couldn't improve my social skills as much I as I should have.

Now that you've seen all that, does it still hold true aspies have difficulty with pretend play?

i have done the imaginary thing my whole life. Now most of my time is spent in the real world but if i have 1 or 2 hours of free time i usually spend it in my little world...

It's mere dissociation. I don't think it's much more than that. Daydreaming itself is a form of dissociation, and we tend to dig real deep into our thoughts and interests. If it becomes a serious problem, such as by taking up all his life to the point where he starts shutting everyone else out or acting completely bizarre, then that may be time to seek help on it. I can sort of see how this could happen, but I think with proper guidance, such a happening is probably very unlikely. Most of us have never drifted into any kind of disturbing psychotic or dissociative state, yet most of us have had very overactive imaginations and thought processes. Maybe this kind of thinking is not the "normal" thing to do, but then ... what is normal?

This sort of creativity can possibly be a portal into some sort of career. For years, I've expressed it through writing short stories and poetry. I can still do that, but I tend to spend most of my time on the computer nowadays browsing the Internet and what not. I was never that good with people in general, and I have a tendency to drift inward. I still live in a world bound by my interests, so much so that I tend to keep it a secret from everyone else, including my family. They don't control me as much as I control them, however, and I make them a part of me. Literally, I have given some articles relating to my interests human characteristics, even emotions. This is how I ended up with a false diagnosis of childhood schizophrenia years ago. They thought I had thought patterns that verged on psychosis, yet I knew what was reality and what was not. There wasn't anything that fit what I explained.

- Ray M -

i was like this too when i was younger. to me it was the car or bus though. in elementry school id pretend the car was a horse drawn carriege, the bus was the flintstones car. after that it was a speed mountain bicycle for both or one of them excersize bikes were u move the handlebars in sequince with the pedals. there was another in early elementry school were id pretend the car was a manual wheelchair and push the wheels(no im not in a wheelchair) also bus was a train, in winter id pretend i was driving a snowplow with salt spreader on back. i have also made it into a backhoe. from middle school on, it then turned into a zero turning radius lawn mower without deck (examples are SCAG, DIXIE CHOPPER and other commercial ride on mowers) until graduation. it was not obvious though beucase id have both arms straight out on legs to hide the "steering" of the "mower"

that was because like what i seen and how they steer with hydrualics. i then finally got to drive one in high school for 3 years and loved it! i wish i could have drivin it more but one kid he kept driving it around alot until teacher one day decided to lie about it and said it was"broken" because one boy was a mower hog and didnt let anyone else have fair time on it. that thing could have came in very handy when i had painful periods!

When I was a very young child I did not pretend at all. Everything had to be quite concrete. But I did have unrealistic beliefs. I really believed that I could fly. I used to stand at the top of the stairway and feel that if only I had the courage to jump, I would be able to fly. I have no idea why I had this impulse. It was quite strong when I was very little; ages 3-4. I nearly jumped a few times but something (probably common sense) held me back. I always felt like I had failed and was a coward because I didn't jump. However, when I became a pre-teen, my aunt introduced me to the Chronicles of Narnia and from that point I became heavily involved in fantasizing and daydreaming all sorts of other-worldly things.

Between the Ages 5 and 12, I used to pretend that I was in London. The cars were Hackney Carriages and the trucks were Routemasters. The Tunnel on my way to where Grandpa and Nana lived in Vancouver, at the time, was the London Underground. I'd pretend that the Cops were Bobbies and there was a Guard in front of every Store. I'd pretend that every Bridge that we drove over, was the Tower Bridge. I used to pretend that all of the houses had steep roofs, like they do in England.

I wonder if my Pre-School Trip to Victoria, BC might have played a part in all of this?

Usually it's more fun pretending you own your own planet with a fleet of starships and a retinue of godlike guardians than a less-than-popular elementary schooler. My friend and I, and sometimes even other kids pretended to be characters in a Mega Man/Star Fox/Star Wars combined universe. He was always Ice Man, but I was ever the indecisive one. But my most pervasive alt was Josh Machine Metalwalker. We'd spend recesses battling Vader, Andross, Death Man, and those damned bees (the real kind). I have notebooks full of personality profiles, planetary and locale info, and comics detailing the adventures. Good times, but it doesn't land you into the in crowd when you spend "Battle Day" kicking and punching air instead of a rubber ball.

But if your son's anything like I was, those days will soon pass by the time those hormones set in, then he'll have more important things to worry about.

Hmm, maybe -this- is what your son is "suffering" from:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28223

That is so spot-on! TheOnion often gets it right
If this diagnosing hysteria goes on, there will be so many different ones that none of us will have the exact same setup.

In other words, just a fancy, expensive way to say "We are all different. We are all unique".
Slap that simple label on us when we're born, and leave it at that!

That is so right. And once someone has a "label" all of their behaviors are judged and monitored according to that label.