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Vexcalibur
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11 Mar 2011, 7:11 pm

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/op ... 20744.html

Quote:
(tons of text scrapped, click link to read the complete one)

Administrations change, much remains the same

Remember back when Obama campaigned against such Bush-league torture tactics? Recall when candidate Obama said "government whistleblowers are part of a healthy democracy and must be protected from reprisal"? It appears his opposition to torture and support for whistleblowers was mere rhetoric. And then he took office.

Indeed, despite the grand promises and soaring oratory, Obama's treatment of Manning is starkly reminiscent of none other than Richard Nixon.

Like Obama – who has prosecuted more whistleblowers than any president in history – Nixon had no sympathy for "snitches", and no interest in the US public learning the truth about their government. And he likewise argued that Daniel Ellsberg, the leaker of the Pentagon Papers, had given "aid and comfort to the enemy" for revealing the facts about the war in Vietnam.

But there's a difference. Richard Nixon never had the heroic whistleblower of his day thrown in solitary confinement and tortured. If only the same could be said for Barack Obama.

Medea Benjamin is cofounder of Global Exchange and CODEPINK: Women for Peace, while Charles Davis is an independent journalist.

On March 20, CODEPINK and others will hold a rally at the Quantico Marine Base in Virginia, USA, in support of Bradley Manning. For details, click here.

The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy.


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simon_says
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11 Mar 2011, 7:13 pm

Obama used the legal system. Nixon had the offices burglarized.

Case closed.



Vexcalibur
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11 Mar 2011, 7:14 pm

The legal system allows forcing a guy to be naked without trial?

That's quite a crappy legal system.


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simon_says
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11 Mar 2011, 7:21 pm

He's on suicide watch. He wasnt forced to lose his boxers until he commented that he could hang himself with the elastic. That smart remark lost him his panties. What a genius.

That kind of military policy, having nothing to do with Obama, is far different from hiring a nazi lover like G Gordon Liddy to run your own private intelligence operations in DC.



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11 Mar 2011, 7:27 pm

simon_says wrote:
He's on suicide watch.

No, he isn't. Quit lying to justify fascism.


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simon_says
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11 Mar 2011, 7:32 pm

He certainly was on suicide watch, they call it some kind of protective something or other, whether or not it's justified is something else.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2011/ ... ide-watch/

Guys like you just get so upset that you can't even do basic fact checking. You have the internet at your fingertips but you'd rather cry wolf. That's just sad and shows a lack of character. Best of luck.



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11 Mar 2011, 7:37 pm

Bloody hell, learn to read your own source.


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11 Mar 2011, 7:46 pm

I read fine. He's under protective custody of some sort. Many sources say the exact same thing.

The guy has established mental problems. Even Kucinich agrees it's in his record. And I wouldnt expect that someone charged with aiding the enemy is going to get very good treatment by anyone in the service. Whether the precautions taken are justified, I don't know. I dont' speak to the spirits like you do. Let me know when the next transmission is due.

Here's his attorney (you know what that means right?) saying he's under suicide watch:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/03/ ... 299427376/

If you need help with any of the words in that big boy article, you let me know.



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11 Mar 2011, 7:55 pm

He was on suicide watch for only a couple days, and the military has since admitted that he was put on suicide watch in violation of regulations and contrary to the medical opinions of three psychiatrists.

The extent to which you are willing to be an apologist for illegal and barbaric behavior like this is disgusting.


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11 Mar 2011, 7:58 pm

Dated March 6, "Manning still on suicide watch"

Quote:
QUANTICO, Va., March 6 (UPI) -- The U.S. soldier accused of helping WikiLeaks.org is doing some hard time in a military brig while awaiting trial, his lawyer said.

Attorney David Coombs said Pfc. Bradley Manning had been ordered to sleep in the buff and was being considered a suicide risk without the recommendation of a mental health professional.

"Manning was told he would continue to be kept under the restrictions of prevention of injury watch, that there was nothing he could do to change his maximum-custody status and that the brig commander considered him at risk of self-harm," Coombs said in a blog posting last week.

The Washington Post said Sunday the jailers at the facility in Quantico, Va., maintained that Manning was placed on "prevention of injury watch" after making a remark that he could hang himself with the elastic waistband from his undershorts.


You come from the nation that invented the language. I suggest you bone up.



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11 Mar 2011, 8:07 pm

simon_says wrote:
He's on suicide watch. He wasnt forced to lose his boxers until he commented that he could hang himself with the elastic. That smart remark lost him his panties. What a genius.



So a smart remark justifies a new layer to his torture?


Sorry, but if you're that dense and inhumane, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. Ever.


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11 Mar 2011, 8:11 pm

I'm American; refrain from making incorrect assumptions.

The suicide watch was changed to a POI (prevention of injury) watch in order to avoid the legal issues from improperly placing him on suicide watch. POI watch is not the same as suicide watch.

Your source had an incorrect headline that was actually contradicted in the substance of the article. I reiterate: learn to read, and quit being an apologist for illegal torture, you piece of dirt.


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11 Mar 2011, 8:13 pm

I didnt say that I knew if it was justified but I know it's silly to make smart remarks in front of people who have legal power over you.

But the OP was implying they were just randomly doing this on the orders of the President. I have no such evidence. Maybe when the thunder spirits speak to you next, you can let us all hear.



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11 Mar 2011, 8:14 pm

Orwell wrote:
I'm American; refrain from making incorrect assumptions.

The suicide watch was changed to a POI (prevention of injury) watch in order to avoid the legal issues from improperly placing him on suicide watch. POI watch is not the same as suicide watch.

Your source had an incorrect headline that was actually contradicted in the substance of the article. I reiterate: learn to read, and quit being an apologist for illegal torture, you piece of dirt.


:lol:

Refrain from calling me a liar punk. WHen clearly what I said was accurate. I also said they have another name for it but the intent is the same.

Develop some basic character and maybe we can speak in future. Until then I don't speak with trash.



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11 Mar 2011, 8:15 pm

simon_says wrote:
But the OP was implying they were just randomly doing this on the orders of the President. I have no such evidence. Maybe when the thunder spirits speak to you next, you can let us all hear.

Obama has been asked about this issue publicly, and he has supported the military's inhumane treatment of Manning. It is not by Obama's orders, but it is by his consent.


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11 Mar 2011, 8:16 pm

President Obama tells us that he's asked the Pentagon whether the conditions of confinement of Bradley Manning, the soldier charged with leaking state secrets, "are appropriate and are meeting our basic standards. They assure me that they are."

If Obama believes that, he'll believe anything. I would hope he would know better than to ask the perpetrators whether they've been behaving appropriately. I can just hear President Nixon saying to a press conference the same thing: "I was assured by the the White House Plumbers that their burglary of the office of Daniel Ellsberg's doctor in Los Angeles was appropriate and met basic standards."

When that criminal behaviour ordered from the Oval Office came out, Nixon faced impeachment and had to resign. Well, times have changed. But if President Obama really doesn't yet know the actual conditions of Manning's detention – if he really believes, as he's said, that "some of this [nudity, isolation, harassment, sleep-deprivation] has to do with Private Manning's wellbeing", despite the contrary judgments of the prison psychologist – then he's being lied to, and he needs to get a grip on his administration.

If he does know, and agrees that it's appropriate or even legal, that doesn't speak well for his memory of the courses he taught on constitutional law.

The president refused to comment on PJ Crowley's statement that the treatment of Manning is "ridiculous, counterproductive and stupid". Those words are true enough as far as they go – which is probably about as far as a state department spokesperson can allow himself to go in condemning actions of the defence department. But at least two other words are called for: abusive and illegal.

Crowley was responding to a question about the "torturing" of an American citizen, and, creditably, he didn't rebut that description. Prolonged isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity – that's right out of the manual of the CIA for "enhanced interrogation". We've seen it applied in Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib. It's what the CIA calls "no-touch torture", and its purpose there, as in this case, is very clear: to demoralise someone to the point of offering a desired confession. That's what they are after, I suspect, with Manning. They don't care if the confession is true or false, so long as it implicates WikiLeaks in a way that will help them prosecute Julian Assange.

That's just my guess, as to their motives. But it does not affect the illegality of the behaviour. If I'm right, it's likely that such harsh treatment wasn't ordered at the level of a warrant officer or the brig commander. The fact that they have continued to inflict such suffering on the prisoner despite weeks of complaint from his defence counsel, harsh publicity and condemnation from organisations such as Amnesty International, suggests to me that it might have come from high levels of the defence department or the justice department, if not from the White House itself.

It's no coincidence that it's someone from the state department who has gone off-message to speak out about this. When a branch of the US government makes a mockery of our pretensions to honour the rule of law, specifically our obligation not to use torture, the state department bears the brunt of that, as it affects our standing in the world.

The fact that Manning's abusive mistreatment is going on at Quantico – where I spent nine months as a Marine officer in basic school – and that Marines are lying about it, makes me feel ashamed for the Corps. Just three years as an infantry officer was more than enough time for me to know that what is going on there is illegal behaviour that must be stopped and disciplined.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -wikileaks


Ellsberg knows a thing or two about Nixon and this.


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