should Obama's plan go through in the U.S...................

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Frieslander
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20 Apr 2011, 9:44 pm

I discussed how happy I was with my health care services here with Molina Medicaire and Medicaid with my brother. He went into this long talk about how my health care (which I get because of disability and low income) comes at a price to others. Isn't my and others' medical, etc., well-being worth something to others?

And he talks about how he has no insurance, being self employed. Well, maybe he made bad decisions about his self-employment? I certainly can't help the illnesses I have. Well, I said, what about Obama's health care plan? Then he complains about that too, because what if he has to buy into it, paying whatever-hundred dollars per year, and never use it.

But when one pays into health insurance as part of a job, they often don't use it either.

Any ideas, thoughts?


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Nil_Nil
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20 Apr 2011, 11:31 pm

No.



Inuyasha
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21 Apr 2011, 12:04 am

You aren't forced to buy into something when you get a job, you are being forced to buy something under Obamacare just because you have a heartbeat.



ruveyn
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21 Apr 2011, 3:26 am

Frieslander wrote:

But when one pays into health insurance as part of a job, they often don't use it either.

?


They don't have to take the job.

ruveyn



simon_says
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21 Apr 2011, 6:04 am

He may not have to buy anything. It depends on how much he makes. If he makes under 30k and has a family of four, medicaid covers them. If he's single it will be 15k. Above that level he'll get subsidies so it should be cheap. And if he's under 30 he can get a very cheap catastrophic only policy.

Quote:
You aren't forced to buy into something when you get a job, you are being forced to buy something under Obamacare just because you have a heartbeat


This is inaccurate.



Jacoby
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21 Apr 2011, 7:47 am

Don't worry about it, Obamacare will be dead at lift off.



zer0netgain
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21 Apr 2011, 7:52 am

Absolutely not.

The simple fact of why I don't have health insurance....I can't afford it. I have X dollars to spare every year for health care. If I buy health insurance, I have no more money to pay for health care. This is critical because INSURANCE does not pay for health care until I absorb Y in health care costs out of my own pocket. Thanks to government meddling, the most affordable insurance plans (major medical) are almost impossible to find in favor of HMO-modeled plans that cost a lot more to buy.

I could support a national health care model that makes you pay Z each month but you have access to all needed health care services without any significant deductible on your part...maybe a co-pay would be acceptable. However, Obamacare really does nothing to help people who can't afford health care coverage. Health care reform should have been done in defined and limited steps to fix what was not working and give it a chance to work before deciding on the next step.

You say your brother's situation is one of bad decisions in self-employment. Do you realize more and more employers are being forced to scale back or eliminate their health insurance benefits? Do you realize Obama and Obamacare wants to tax people's benefits as if they were income? That would double the tax liability for every employee who gets benefits. If you don't have an employer choosing to cover the high cost of health insurance, the cost of a private policy is quite high, and thanks to Obamacare passing, I've seen self-employed people watch their premium go up by almost 50% in just 2 years.

On top of that, Obamacare wants to FORCE Americans to by INSURANCE. The whole reason I don't have it is because if I bought insurance, I'd have no money to pay for actual health care needs. I'd be nice in the event something really bad happened so the doctors and hospital would get something, but the fact Obamacare will create a legion of "underinsured" people in America. Underinsured people are those who have health insurance but can't afford to see a doctor because of high premiums for the policy and the high deductibles they must meet before insurance will pick up any part of the bill.

So, Obamacare fixes NOTHING but imposes draconian measures on the average person.



simon_says
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21 Apr 2011, 8:15 am

zer0netgain wrote:
Absolutely not.

The simple fact of why I don't have health insurance....I can't afford it. I have X dollars to spare every year for health care. If I buy health insurance, I have no more money to pay for health care. This is critical because INSURANCE does not pay for health care until I absorb Y in health care costs out of my own pocket. Thanks to government meddling, the most affordable insurance plans (major medical) are almost impossible to find in favor of HMO-modeled plans that cost a lot more to buy.

I could support a national health care model that makes you pay Z each month but you have access to all needed health care services without any significant deductible on your part...maybe a co-pay would be acceptable. However, Obamacare really does nothing to help people who can't afford health care coverage. Health care reform should have been done in defined and limited steps to fix what was not working and give it a chance to work before deciding on the next step.

You say your brother's situation is one of bad decisions in self-employment. Do you realize more and more employers are being forced to scale back or eliminate their health insurance benefits? Do you realize Obama and Obamacare wants to tax people's benefits as if they were income? That would double the tax liability for every employee who gets benefits. If you don't have an employer choosing to cover the high cost of health insurance, the cost of a private policy is quite high, and thanks to Obamacare passing, I've seen self-employed people watch their premium go up by almost 50% in just 2 years.

On top of that, Obamacare wants to FORCE Americans to by INSURANCE. The whole reason I don't have it is because if I bought insurance, I'd have no money to pay for actual health care needs. I'd be nice in the event something really bad happened so the doctors and hospital would get something, but the fact Obamacare will create a legion of "underinsured" people in America. Underinsured people are those who have health insurance but can't afford to see a doctor because of high premiums for the policy and the high deductibles they must meet before insurance will pick up any part of the bill.

So, Obamacare fixes NOTHING but imposes draconian measures on the average person.



:lol:

You don't know a thing about it. That's obvious.



Inuyasha
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21 Apr 2011, 10:31 am

simon_says wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Absolutely not.

The simple fact of why I don't have health insurance....I can't afford it. I have X dollars to spare every year for health care. If I buy health insurance, I have no more money to pay for health care. This is critical because INSURANCE does not pay for health care until I absorb Y in health care costs out of my own pocket. Thanks to government meddling, the most affordable insurance plans (major medical) are almost impossible to find in favor of HMO-modeled plans that cost a lot more to buy.

I could support a national health care model that makes you pay Z each month but you have access to all needed health care services without any significant deductible on your part...maybe a co-pay would be acceptable. However, Obamacare really does nothing to help people who can't afford health care coverage. Health care reform should have been done in defined and limited steps to fix what was not working and give it a chance to work before deciding on the next step.

You say your brother's situation is one of bad decisions in self-employment. Do you realize more and more employers are being forced to scale back or eliminate their health insurance benefits? Do you realize Obama and Obamacare wants to tax people's benefits as if they were income? That would double the tax liability for every employee who gets benefits. If you don't have an employer choosing to cover the high cost of health insurance, the cost of a private policy is quite high, and thanks to Obamacare passing, I've seen self-employed people watch their premium go up by almost 50% in just 2 years.

On top of that, Obamacare wants to FORCE Americans to by INSURANCE. The whole reason I don't have it is because if I bought insurance, I'd have no money to pay for actual health care needs. I'd be nice in the event something really bad happened so the doctors and hospital would get something, but the fact Obamacare will create a legion of "underinsured" people in America. Underinsured people are those who have health insurance but can't afford to see a doctor because of high premiums for the policy and the high deductibles they must meet before insurance will pick up any part of the bill.

So, Obamacare fixes NOTHING but imposes draconian measures on the average person.



:lol:

You don't know a thing about it. That's obvious.


Looks more like you don't know a darn thing about it, not zer0netgain.



skafather84
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21 Apr 2011, 10:32 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Looks more like you don't know a darn thing about it, not zer0netgain.


Says the king of ignorance in this neck of the woods.


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Inuyasha
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21 Apr 2011, 10:40 am

skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Looks more like you don't know a darn thing about it, not zer0netgain.


Says the king of ignorance in this neck of the woods.


:roll:

That would be you, not me. And oh btw, Glenn Beck is being proven right.

Unless you think $6 a gallon gas won't hurt the economy.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42683030

And if you think it won't you have proven once and for all that you are the clueless one.



skafather84
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21 Apr 2011, 10:43 am

Frieslander wrote:
Then he complains about that too, because what if he has to buy into it, paying whatever-hundred dollars per year, and never use it.



I pay about a grand per year for car insurance and that's mandatory. You don't see people making mandatory car insurance an issue.


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simon_says
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21 Apr 2011, 10:46 am

Quote:
Looks more like you don't know a darn thing about it, not zer0netgain.


What do you have to do with this conversation? Use some facts.

The cadillac tax is for more expensive plans only and it's paid for by the sponsors of the plan starting in 2018 (read: employers, not employees in most cases). And it's only on the amount above the cap. The cap on luxury plans being 10,200. So if the plan is 11k, the employer pays a tax on $800 (or ~$300). As a result, they'll switch to more affordable plans instead. Many agree that these plans are inefficient.

It's something that many conservatives like for inside baseball reasons. And it's a great way to generate revenue to pay for PPACA.



Last edited by simon_says on 21 Apr 2011, 10:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

Inuyasha
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21 Apr 2011, 10:47 am

skafather84 wrote:
Frieslander wrote:
Then he complains about that too, because what if he has to buy into it, paying whatever-hundred dollars per year, and never use it.



I pay about a grand per year for car insurance and that's mandatory. You don't see people making mandatory car insurance an issue.


You chose to buy a car in the first place. The act of buying a car is choosing to engage in commerce. If you chose to sell said car and ride a bus from now on, you wouldn't have to pay for auto insurance, because you don't have an automobile.

The government is trying to force people to buy a product simply because they have a heartbeat.

If you can't see the difference between mandatory auto insurance and mandatory health insurance then you are quite frankly an idiot.



skafather84
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21 Apr 2011, 10:57 am

Inuyasha wrote:
You chose to buy a car in the first place.


Don't know where you live but in pretty much every place I've lived, I wouldn't be able to hold a job without having a car to be able to effectively transport me there. I also wouldn't be able to get out and have something resembling a life without a car. It's only a choice in the farthest, loosest sense. Unless you live in NYC, you need a car.


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Inuyasha
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21 Apr 2011, 11:01 am

skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
You chose to buy a car in the first place.


Don't know where you live but in pretty much every place I've lived, I wouldn't be able to hold a job without having a car to be able to effectively transport me there. I also wouldn't be able to get out and have something resembling a life without a car. It's only a choice in the farthest, loosest sense. Unless you live in NYC, you need a car.


You still chose to buy the car, and there is such a thing as taxis, and you could also ride with a co-worker into work. Seriously, you chose to buy a car. That was a voluntary action, having a heartbeat is involuntary.