Possible Link Between ASD's and Transgenderism?

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There has been lots and lots of talk recently around certain forums about alot of transsexuals having Autism or a related disorder and I wonderd if anyone has any info to back this up, or any comments that they feel they'd like to share about this topic. It really is quite interesting and would be great if some of you could share a little insight if you have any, or even just your own thoughts on the subject.

So what say you?

I don't believe there's enough evidence for a solid correlation. There are many if not more spectrumites who are straight as an arrow and are happy with the gender they're born with, although many are androgynous.

People have tried to link Baron-Cohen's systemizer/empathizer theory to sexual preference, but that's a deviation from his premise. I don't believe they way your brain processes information has anything to do with your sexual orientation and/or sexual preference. I'll use myself as an example. I tested in the "extreme systemizer" area according to Baron-Cohen and I'm female, but I have no interest being transgender even though systemizing brains are more common with males.

I don't believe there's been any research to this effect.

I read a blog post several months ago about how there does seem to be a lot of gender variance among autistic people, and the writer is someone I trust to be well-informed and not make unsubstantiated claims, but a lot of that variance might not be transgender (or seen as transgender by the person with the variation).

Tony Attwood talks about this in The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome.

Whatever is going on, if anything, likely has nothing to do with anything Simon Baron-Cohen identified as "extreme male brain." Whatever is going on, also, would likely be a significant but minor increase in the percentage of people who describe themselves as gender variant relative to the general population. That is, most autistic people will probably be comfortably within the gender binary and their sex assigned at birth.

I'm not sure why orientation came up in this thread.

the only thing i've found that might possibly be relevant is an article- this one: gender identity disorder in an adult male with asperger's syndrome by gerard gallucci, MD, MHS and florence hackerman, LCPC and chester W schmidt jr, MD from sexuality and disability vol 23 no. 1 spring 2005 i cant say what was in it because i haven't fully read it yet but so far it seems transphobic because the subject identifies as a woman yet is constantly referred to as he. thats what stands out for me so far. anyhow found this on my uni library website. dunno if you've tried searching on databases and stuff or if your educational institution(if you are still in education) has stuff like that. try your library. i think i've seen stuff to this effect in mine.

Here are some links. Some of them are Simon Baron-Cohen studies framed in his extreme male brain theory, but the facts don't necessarily have to be interpreted in his theory.

http://www.psypost.org/2011/05/female-m ... raits-5401
http://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2008/webp ... r2556.html
http://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2009/webp ... r4222.html

And a blog post discussing the last two:
http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2009/0 ... -identity/

Thanks for the links! I was clearly wrong.

6% is pretty high. I wonder if it goes the other way.

Possible Link Between ASD's and Transgenderism?

No.

6% is practically nothing, as it is well below the level of simple random chance (50%).

60% would be significant, however...

6% is approximately 30-180 times the occurrence in the general population (which is probably somewhere between .2% and .0333%). How is this not statistically significant?

While there seems to be a correlation when compared to the general population, when those same statistics are transposed to the specific population, there is still the 94% of all people with ASDs that are NOT transgendered.

Statistically comparing one population to another is fine, so far as it goes (and people often do so to justify their favorite misconceptions and press their own agenda), one should never forget to really look at the data for the specific sample population, as well. That is, there may very well be other factors at work, such as the person with ASD believing that his or her lack of sociability is solely due to his or her genetic gender, or that the person with the ASD is convinced by others that his or her "weirdness" is the result of "gender confusion", when in both cases (lack of sociability and "weirdness") the actual cause is the ASD itself.

No one's saying that most autistic people are transgender as well, or that autism causes transness or that transness causes autism. I believe an increase of 30-180 times from the general population, however, is significant enough to point to the possibility that there is something going on, even though it doesn't happen with a lot of autistic people (and, I assume, a lot of transgender people).

As a point of comparison, mood disorders (such as depression) are present in about 45% of the ADHD population. This is three times the percentage as for the general population, and this is considered statistically significant as far as ADHD research goes. Most comorbids are like this. ADHD is about 10x more common among autistic people as among the general population, and this is also considered fairly significant (admittedly, it is 75% of the population). 6% of a population being transgender is statistically so far beyond what anyone would expect that it is difficult for me to understand how it is not meaningful. It doesn't have to translate to a majority of the population to mean anything, it just needs to have a higher rate of occurrence.



This doesn't appear to be an agenda to me. What possible agenda could there be to identifying if there's an increased occurrence of autism in transgender people?

I do not know the point you're trying to get at with regards to your examples of autistic people believing their difficulties are caused by being transgender. I mean, I know for a fact that there are autistic transgender people who have had that experience because I've read their firsthand accounts. But I don't understand how this is relevant to dismissing a possible correlation of increased ASD among transgender people or an increased number of transgender people in the autistic population. Could you clarify what you mean there?

Actually, you've got the numbers inside out there. The article doesn't say that 6% of people with ASDs are transgendered; it says something closer to that 6% of transgendered people have an ASD. It doesn't say anything at all about what percentage of people with an ASD are transgendered.

I got the number backwards My fault.

Six times the prevalence going that way, still pretty noteworthy.

The "extreme male brain" theory doesn't account for where male-to-female transsexuals with autistic spectrum disorders come from. I guess they don't count me.

Yeah, quite. My guess is it's a more straightforward "yikes, my brain doesn't work like those of my cisgendered peers seem to, maybe trans- is a better fit."

I see that as easy to explain. AS effects are primarily social, and keep us from seeing things the same way as NTs, and seeing as much peer pressure. NTs may feel the peer pressure so strongly that they refuse to even acknowledge it to themselves. Same with being gay/lesbian. There is so much pressure in the NT world to fit in with the "norm" that some people will supress their true self so much that even they don't recognize it, just so they can fit in.

This is an interesting guess, but I suspect it is probably off the mark. It can possibly account for some discrepancy, but it is unlikely to be on the order of 600%, and I don't know that all autistic people are immune to this sort of thing, especially given how many of us pretend/try to fit the NT norm ourselves.

I also think that people who differ from the "norm" are less likely to have motivation to stick to the norm. Many will likely try, but I suspect most will wear themselves trying to hold onto that. That is, after all, what happens to a lot of autistic people who try to fit the norm.

Given the mounting evidence that being transgender itself is a neurological difference and that being autistic tends to come with neurological comorbids, it does make me curious as to what is going on here. I don't think a pure socialization explanation can explain it away.