Life is depressing (not in the emo kind of way)

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sErgEantaEgis
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10 Aug 2011, 9:33 pm

I know the topic sounds rather emo but it's not that I find my life boring/depressing/contemplate suicide but when you think about it, life (as in life in general, the chemical process, metabolism, cell,etc...), in order just to exist has to create death. Think about it. Just when you eat a plant or an animal, you break down cells to metabolise their proteins. And you have to kill a plant (yes vegans, eating vegetables and fruits ALSO cause death) or an animal to feed, and you have to kill it's cells. Or when we are under attack by viruses, bacterias or parasites, our immune systems must kill these intruders. This happen pretty much all the time. And we could of course argue that viruses are technically non-alive (though they share some characteristics of living beings and I think they do some chemical processes and they can evolve darwinically) but bacterias and parasites are. And finally, when we regenerate our body, some old or deficient cells must be eliminated.

Just some tought I add today.



techstepgenr8tion
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10 Aug 2011, 9:48 pm

I used to get that way often thinking about things like this, especially when I was sort of going through withdrawls from a once held theistic certainty. I even came to figure that life on earth was really like a wrap of seething cannibalistic mold growing on a crumb under a heat lamp in the middle of - effectively nothing, and that life in itself was essentially an agent of rot and decay. I started to wonder if it wasn't a bit like a planetary hiv.

I think this is why the grandeur in the notion of spirit, spirituality, etc. can be a lot more welcoming to a lot of people - it isn't so resoundingly and echnoingly lonely or hollow, nor do you figure reality fading away like a mirage as cognition fails for the last time. Then again - that's if you choose to believe that the strict materialists have this all pegged and figured out. To think as well that there is no such thing as meaningful existence, that this life isn't in a non-existence sandwich, in a sense its a very colorful kinetic nonexistence, you figure as well - we're energy. Energy isn't created, it isn't destroyed, in a sense yes - once we die we're likely much less sentient or, possibly completely without any sense of self or control. Somehow though the universe keeps throwing energy at 'us', new seeds of consciousness keep getting drawn in together and as always separating back out after death, it could very well be circular, it could be a return to Buddhist nirvana in a sense that perhaps that's what its like to exist in the natural state rather than as 'this'.

So on the bright side - you'll do well to remember that you never really die in the fullest sense because you were never really born in the fullest sense either. If you do that, all of this seems a few shades less serious.


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sErgEantaEgis
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10 Aug 2011, 10:17 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I used to get that way often thinking about things like this, especially when I was sort of going through withdrawls from a once held theistic certainty. I even came to figure that life on earth was really like a wrap of seething cannibalistic mold growing on a crumb under a heat lamp in the middle of - effectively nothing, and that life in itself was essentially an agent of rot and decay. I started to wonder if it wasn't a bit like a planetary hiv.

I think this is why the grandeur in the notion of spirit, spirituality, etc. can be a lot more welcoming to a lot of people - it isn't so resoundingly and echnoingly lonely or hollow, nor do you figure reality fading away like a mirage as cognition fails for the last time. Then again - that's if you choose to believe that the strict materialists have this all pegged and figured out. To think as well that there is no such thing as meaningful existence, that this life isn't in a non-existence sandwich, in a sense its a very colorful kinetic nonexistence, you figure as well - we're energy. Energy isn't created, it isn't destroyed, in a sense yes - once we die we're likely much less sentient or, possibly completely without any sense of self or control. Somehow though the universe keeps throwing energy at 'us', new seeds of consciousness keep getting drawn in together and as always separating back out after death, it could very well be circular, it could be a return to Buddhist nirvana in a sense that perhaps that's what its like to exist in the natural state rather than as 'this'.

So on the bright side - you'll do well to remember that you never really die in the fullest sense because you were never really born in the fullest sense either. If you do that, all of this seems a few shades less serious.


I like your point. I wasn't talking about life in that sort of ''metaphysical'' way or in the sense of reality. But I like your toughts. And then death and life is pretty much meaningless as it only applies to biological mechanisms, wich are ridiculously negligeable in this entire, lifeless universe, only governed by the laws of physics and thermodynamics, where 1 millions years pass off as one second, and were stars wither and die like flowers. Concerning on the meaning of life or death is as meaningless to the universe as if the dust on the floor is on it's ''top'' position or ''reversed'' position. By purely materialistic laws, death and life is meaningless as we are just matter and energy and we are not destroyed or created so the billions of atoms making me and you are just in a ridiculously short phase of ''forming flesh and bone'' and in billions of years these particule will be the same particules, only they will be organised as hydrogen and will float in an abyss in space, and have been doing so from the birth of the universe to whatever will happen to it at the end.

Deep stuff...



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11 Aug 2011, 8:38 am

to quote:

'tain't nohow permanent.



donnie_darko
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12 Aug 2011, 12:22 am

Life isn't bad. Plants probably don't feel pain, though there is a chance they do as I have heard they 'scream'. Animals have no concept of death, aside from a few such as us, elephants and probably cetaceans and some primates.



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12 Aug 2011, 12:57 am

sErgEantaEgis wrote:
I know the topic sounds rather emo but it's not that I find my life boring/depressing/contemplate suicide but when you think about it, life (as in life in general, the chemical process, metabolism, cell,etc...), in order just to exist has to create death. Think about it. Just when you eat a plant or an animal, you break down cells to metabolise their proteins. And you have to kill a plant (yes vegans, eating vegetables and fruits ALSO cause death) or an animal to feed, and you have to kill it's cells. Or when we are under attack by viruses, bacterias or parasites, our immune systems must kill these intruders. This happen pretty much all the time. And we could of course argue that viruses are technically non-alive (though they share some characteristics of living beings and I think they do some chemical processes and they can evolve darwinically) but bacterias and parasites are. And finally, when we regenerate our body, some old or deficient cells must be eliminated.

Just some tought I add today.


When I'll die, I 'll feed plenty of bacteria and worms too.


I don't see why is that depressing. You owe your existence to tons of factors and beings. Make good use of it,.


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12 Aug 2011, 12:58 am

Well, look on the bright side: you’re not emo.

Image

:eew:



MarketAndChurch
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13 Aug 2011, 1:20 am

spiritually speaking, We live only on in the memory of others

If there is no one around to remember us, it will be as if we never existed at all

so invent something or do something great, have a hospital or stadium named after you, or whatever way in dealing with your mortality fits your budget.


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Last edited by MarketAndChurch on 13 Aug 2011, 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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13 Aug 2011, 1:29 am

I see that cycle of life/energy as really amazing and beautiful. I don't believe my consciousness will survive past this life, but the elements that make me up were born in the heart of a supernova millions of years ago. How awesome is that?! We are star stuff. Thank you Carl Sagan :D
I feel really connected to everything and everyone whenever I think about that.



techstepgenr8tion
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13 Aug 2011, 1:34 am

MarketAndChurch wrote:
spiritually speaking, We live only in the memory of others

If there is no one around to remember us, itll be as if we never existed at all

In my early twenties that drove me crazy, I think its where I got into the habit of really taking a beating on myself for wherever I felt I was coming up short.

The kinder side of reality on this - no matter who you are or what name you have on a building, or how many records you sold in a particular decade, it'll happen within a couple hundred years that what's taught of human history in highschool and college will still be condensed to a few years worth at a couple hours a pop and that aside from wars and treaties not much will be remembered at all. That and, even for those seen of great historical value - they'll disappear as well.

The best part of it all though - these are only issues that will bother you while you're living. When you pass, either with or without cognition, it'd be an unlikely concern. If cognition stops there's no thought to concern it, if cognition doesn't stop - the whole universe is opening up before you, it'd be like worrying about what people thought of you at the dentists office before you packed your bags and went on a three week international vacation.


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sErgEantaEgis
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19 Aug 2011, 2:48 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
sErgEantaEgis wrote:
I know the topic sounds rather emo but it's not that I find my life boring/depressing/contemplate suicide but when you think about it, life (as in life in general, the chemical process, metabolism, cell,etc...), in order just to exist has to create death. Think about it. Just when you eat a plant or an animal, you break down cells to metabolise their proteins. And you have to kill a plant (yes vegans, eating vegetables and fruits ALSO cause death) or an animal to feed, and you have to kill it's cells. Or when we are under attack by viruses, bacterias or parasites, our immune systems must kill these intruders. This happen pretty much all the time. And we could of course argue that viruses are technically non-alive (though they share some characteristics of living beings and I think they do some chemical processes and they can evolve darwinically) but bacterias and parasites are. And finally, when we regenerate our body, some old or deficient cells must be eliminated.

Just some tought I add today.


When I'll die, I 'll feed plenty of bacteria and worms too.


I don't see why is that depressing. You owe your existence to tons of factors and beings. Make good use of it,.


I think depressing was a bad choice of word on my part. I was more saying that it's something pretty... deep... that we need to kill just to be alive. I'm glad at the prospect of turning into compost too and being regenerated in other organic matter, but it just feels weird that to continue to live we must kill.

I respect life as far as we should kill only to survive or protect ourselve and to not cause unnecesary suffering on living beings, but I however understand that at the end of the day life is just a pile of proteins and minerals animated by chemical processes and from an universal point of view we are as important as rocks and dirt and other non-living matter.



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19 Aug 2011, 10:06 pm

Cultivate the extrauniversal point of view.



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20 Aug 2011, 12:19 am

The truth hardly depresses me. I try not to get tangled in feeling one way or another towards truth and just seek it out. The one miracle may be that we can get at truth at all--and then look how people throw it away when it hurts to look at. They turn away from the most beautiful thing, the real--because it offends their human emotions? They expect to get at anything outside human emotions by turning away from every truth that offends them?

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Cultivate the extrauniversal point of view.

There is no extrauniversal point of view for one without god. God is the only thing that may be said to exist outside the universe. Without god, everything is within the universe. I cultivate a universal point of view.



techstepgenr8tion
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20 Aug 2011, 8:16 am

_jake wrote:
The truth hardly depresses me. I try not to get tangled in feeling one way or another towards truth and just seek it out. The one miracle may be that we can get at truth at all--and then look how people throw it away when it hurts to look at. They turn away from the most beautiful thing, the real--because it offends their human emotions? They expect to get at anything outside human emotions by turning away from every truth that offends them?

I'm the same way, but then again its more because IMO avoiding the truth is bad for my emotional health and for a lot of people I think just being out of any proper sync with proper cause and effect can make you a bit bipolar. The other thing, obviously - you can put yourself in danger and set yourself up for some big falls by running.

I think the main reason people run is because things are going well in their lives and they don't want other people's realities killing their high.


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20 Aug 2011, 9:27 am

MarketAndChurch wrote:
spiritually speaking, We live only on in the memory of others

If there is no one around to remember us, it will be as if we never existed at all ...

... and a tree falling in the woods makes no sound unless someone just happens to be there to hear it, eh?!

Nah.


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20 Aug 2011, 9:41 am

leejosepho wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
spiritually speaking, We live only on in the memory of others

If there is no one around to remember us, it will be as if we never existed at all ...

... and a tree falling in the woods makes no sound unless someone just happens to be there to hear it, eh?!

Nah.


Of if it falls on him. Then he will hear himself screaming with pain.

Which reminds me of a version of the riddle: If a tree in a forest falls on Helen Keller, does it make a sound?:

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