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swbluto
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23 Aug 2011, 11:20 am

So, as my business is growing, I want to grow it at a city with better conditions come next year. Doing so, I'll be depending on people other than my cousin. As I realize that most people are NTs and I have a fairly bad track record with most NTs and my thing seems to be in the direction of AS or low EQ, I wonder... could I possibly be an effective leader? I know that, yes, I could employ other people and give them directions, but I really wonder how loyal the average NT would be and how motivated they'll be. The idea is that I won't actually be talking to them all 8 hours of the day as I'll be working on marketing, sales and the like, but when we do talk, they have to share the same ideas about the direction of the company and they have to "buy into the dream" and generally be synergistic/cooperative about the whole thing. They also must not get their friends together and abandon ship in order to form a competing company based on my ideas once they see how successful my ideas are. :lol:

So, the question, can autistic people be a leader among NTs?

If it's kind of impractical, how could I take advantage of owning the "company" and its ideas while not being the leader? Do I bow down to someone else, give them stock options to align their interests with the company's, and then try to keep everything in check? I'm not going to seek this arrangement immediately and I don't want to evolve to it as there are distinct disadvantages with this arrangement, but if it turns out to be the optimal path in practice, then I'm not opposed to it.



kfisherx
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23 Aug 2011, 11:41 am

This is a highly individual question and does not tie directly to ASD only. There are many other factors at play.

I am a leader in high tech (Sr Manager at Intel) and a leader outside of high tech (many different board/leadershp positions) I effectively lead NTs on a regular basis and receive high marks in 360 degree feedback for my leadership style. I am highly aware of my weaknesses though at my more advanced age and have developed workarounds for many of them.

Can you do it?

I sure as heck don't know and nobody on here will know for you. You will have to try it to see where you fall. This is a "spectrum" and asking a question like this is somewhat pointless. Some of us can and some of us cannot.

But to very specifically answer your question. OF COURSE a person with ASD CAN be a great leader of NTs. There are MANY of us out in the world doing just that.



lelia
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23 Aug 2011, 11:52 am

Well, I totally suck at being a leader, and sometimes even being a decent follower though I try earnestly. However, there's Bill Gates...... so SOME of us manage.



Radiofixr
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23 Aug 2011, 11:59 am

I am a total "jellyfish" when it comes to being a person in charge-I totally am not comfortable in a leadership role and I am totally pathetic at it.


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23 Aug 2011, 12:02 pm

There is apocryphal evidence that Bill Gates is on the spectrum. If this is indeed the case, then the short answer is yes. The reality, as kfisherx states, is highly dependent on the individual.

A great equalizer is money. If you have lots of it and others think they have a real chance at getting a slice of the pie, then you could be a smelly, ugly, three armed, two headed monster and people will follow you.


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robh
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23 Aug 2011, 12:17 pm

I think its an issue of practice more than anything.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Aug 2011, 12:24 pm

It just depends on if they want to be a leader badly enough. Question is, why would they want to? I guess some do.



Sparhawke
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23 Aug 2011, 12:41 pm

I am a great believer in that old adage of "a leader cannot expect others to do what he wouldn't do himself"

Unfortunately, that doesn't mean anyone else will also do it lol

People are intrinsically selfish, so what benefit do they have in following you?



Mindslave
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23 Aug 2011, 1:47 pm

I can lead, but I don't really want to. I'll take up the mantle if I must (and I've done that before), but it's certainly not something I would go and seek out.



swbluto
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23 Aug 2011, 1:49 pm

Sparhawke wrote:
I am a great believer in that old adage of "a leader cannot expect others to do what he wouldn't do himself"

Unfortunately, that doesn't mean anyone else will also do it lol


I guess I'm safe there as I'm willing to do just about anything short of killing myself! lol

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People are intrinsically selfish, so what benefit do they have in following you?


Traditionally, in business, it's to make money. In the case of a visionary, lots of it.



Simonono
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23 Aug 2011, 1:50 pm

There is scientific proof that [insert American president here] had AS!

*cue flame war*



kfisherx
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23 Aug 2011, 1:54 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
There is apocryphal evidence that Bill Gates is on the spectrum. If this is indeed the case, then the short answer is yes. The reality, as kfisherx states, is highly dependent on the individual.

A great equalizer is money. If you have lots of it and others think they have a real chance at getting a slice of the pie, then you could be a smelly, ugly, three armed, two headed monster and people will follow you.


I disagree 100% with your "money" comment. I know plenty of people with wealth who command no respect. The secret for me has always been my IQ. People respect me because I am smart. THAT is my biggest asset in this world and is far more important to people than my wealth. In fact, you would not know I was wealthy if you met me as I dress like a street person and lead a humble material life.

I learned a long time ago to find the WIN/WIN in relationships and to have a pure intent. People forgive me my mistakes for the most part because they value my opinion of a given situation and can readily see the benefit to them for doing so (I make it very obvious). My Autism is actually a factor in this because I am always told that people value my "unique" perspective. They would not value this if I had my head up my ass all the time. It isn't about money or even basic social skills. It is about figuring out how to work around your issues to find the "greater" good.



MakaylaTheAspie
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23 Aug 2011, 2:02 pm

I can lead quite well when I need to. People just don't like the directions I give sometimes ;)


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23 Aug 2011, 2:03 pm

Having to "be a leader" is what originally sent me screaming to a psychologist.

People are too random and unpredictable. I can't handle having to direct their behavior.

Example:

Underling: "I don't want to work today! My girlfriend dumped me and I'm sooooo sad. *sob*"

Me: "We have to bolt the tank access door back in place. What does tightening bolts have to do with girlfriends?"

Girlfriend problems = stupid, dumb, weird.

If I have to work with people, I will, but I can't control them (which sucks because I wanted to be a cop).


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23 Aug 2011, 2:06 pm

With all due respect, you guys are making it too complicated. Most employees just want a boss who's reasonably sane. For example, there's the boss who tells employees to do something and then criticizes them for doing that very thing and acts like the previous conversation didn't happen. I'm sure you've heard about such bosses or seen them yourself.

One thing I tell myself is, let a medium mistake just be a medium mistake. Don't compound it.

I also recommend the theory of "the good enough leader."



swbluto
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23 Aug 2011, 2:22 pm

kfisherx wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
There is apocryphal evidence that Bill Gates is on the spectrum. If this is indeed the case, then the short answer is yes. The reality, as kfisherx states, is highly dependent on the individual.

A great equalizer is money. If you have lots of it and others think they have a real chance at getting a slice of the pie, then you could be a smelly, ugly, three armed, two headed monster and people will follow you.


I disagree 100% with your "money" comment. I know plenty of people with wealth who command no respect. The secret for me has always been my IQ. People respect me because I am smart. THAT is my biggest asset in this world and is far more important to people than my wealth. In fact, you would not know I was wealthy if you met me as I dress like a street person and lead a humble material life.


A lot of psychological studies suggest that effective leadership is more directly linked to verbal ability and verbal characteristics associated with extroversion (Like loudness, talkativeness, etc.). So, yes, while your verbal IQ might be (partially) responsible for some of those traits, IQ by itself doesn't guarantee anything. I also have a fairly high IQ but that alone hasn't won me followers in past group settings. (if anything, I speculate that it lead to betrayal and back stabbing. :lol:)

Quote:
I learned a long time ago to find the WIN/WIN in relationships and to have a pure intent. People forgive me my mistakes for the most part because they value my opinion of a given situation and can readily see the benefit to them for doing so (I make it very obvious). My Autism is actually a factor in this because I am always told that people value my "unique" perspective. They would not value this if I had my head up my ass all the time. It isn't about money or even basic social skills. It is about figuring out how to work around your issues to find the "greater" good.


That's good advice. :D