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Postures
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24 Sep 2011, 10:46 am

Discuss.


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ruveyn
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24 Sep 2011, 11:06 am

Postures wrote:
Discuss.


It is the Golden Rule. He who has the Gold makes the Rules.

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pandabear
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24 Sep 2011, 7:56 pm

If you're a hobbyist, you can make your own art, and not be subservient to power.

If you want to sell it, then you are subservient to the power of the marketplace.



ruveyn
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24 Sep 2011, 9:12 pm

pandabear wrote:
If you're a hobbyist, you can make your own art, and not be subservient to power.

If you want to sell it, then you are subservient to the power of the marketplace.


Since no one is self sufficient it is necessary to sell or trade something in order to live, which means we have to make or do something in order to live.

Think of the market places as an incentive and an opportunity rather than as an oppressor.

There is no Sugar Daddy in the Sky who will give us what we need for no effort on our own part.

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24 Sep 2011, 9:33 pm

Some of the world's most renouned artists lived in great poverty.



ruveyn
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24 Sep 2011, 9:41 pm

pandabear wrote:
Some of the world's most renouned artists lived in great poverty.


And some did not. Goya made a lot of pesos with his portraits, for example.

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visagrunt
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26 Sep 2011, 3:49 pm

Patronage is now and always has been the lifeblood of the artist, and artists have always had to make themselves appealing to patrons in order to fund their activities.

Throughout history some patrons have cultivated innovative, controversial artists (consider the Medicis and Sandro Boticelli, or the NEA and Robert Mapplethorpe), and those same controversial artists have faced a backlash from conservative forces resistant to change (consider Savonarola and the AFA).

I see a huge risk in the insistence that art be able to sustain itself commercially. That which is commercial viable and that which has artistic merit are not, and more importantly should not, be equivalent.


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MarketAndChurch
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29 Sep 2011, 12:37 am

As it should be


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But this argument, or at least many applications of it, gets things backward. Arts and culture generally do not fuel economic growth by themselves; rather, economic growth tends to create the preconditions for their development. Ancient Athens and Rome didn't start out as undiscovered artist neighborhoods. They were metropolises built on imperial wealth -- largely collected by force from their colonies -- that funded a new class of patrons and consumers of the arts. Renaissance Florence and Amsterdam established themselves as trade centers first and only then began to nurture great artists from their own middle classes and the surrounding regions.

Even modern Los Angeles owes its initial ascendancy as much to agriculture and oil as to Hollywood. Today, its port and related industries employ far more people than the entertainment business does. (In any case, the men who built Hollywood were hardly cultured aesthetes by middle-class American standards; they were furriers, butchers, and petty traders, mostly from hardscrabble backgrounds in the czarist shtetls and back streets of America's tough ethnic ghettos.) New York, now arguably the world's cultural capital, was once dismissed as a boorish, money-obsessed town, much like the contemporary urban critique of Dallas, Houston, or Phoenix.

Sadly, cities desperate to reverse their slides have been quick to buy into the simplistic idea that by merely branding themselves "creative" they can renew their dying economies; think of Cleveland's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Michigan's bid to market Detroit as a "cool city," and similar efforts in the washed-up industrial towns of the British north. Being told you live in a "European Capital of Culture," as Liverpool was in 2008, means little when your city has no jobs and people are leaving by the busload.


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