I want to share a "Broken Heart" experience

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Chuzhack
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14 Oct 2011, 11:52 am

This is too bloody long and so bloody personal that it would probably be of bloody interest mostly to bloody me and my alter bloody egos. You don't have to read it.

After I had finished high school , I spent 10 months in a commune. (Among other reasons, I did it because I wanted to learn how to socialize better. I think it probably worked somewhat, but that's another story.) Starting on the fourth or fifth month I became increasingly obsessed with one girl. I called it "love" at the time, but I'm not sure I'd like to call it that now. I hardly knew her. At the beginning I thought her somewhat dull and, frankly, stupid, since she was so quiet and seemed so unsure of her opinions when she spoke. (I have a tendency I feel is unfortunate to judge people more by their non-verbal communication, and by the tone of their voice and the structure of their speech, than by the content of their speech, probably, I think, since very often, and back then much more often than not, I couldn't understand aforementioned content). Then one day I heard numerical information about her intelligence. Not IQ but a different system, used by the Israeli army to determine the "quality" of it's future soldiers. It measures linguistic, logical and mathematical ability, short term memory and maybe some stuff I don't remember. She got the highest score (just like me, by the way...). That made me think, and the little pieces started to link: introverted, insecure but apparently very intelligent (for some reason the first two seem to contrast in my mind with the last) -- just like me! I started explaining to myself: introverted -- that's because she has been hurt by others for being different, and intelligence makes you very different; insecure -- that's because she often sees many different, sometimes contradictory, facets of an issue, therefore having a hard time forming an opinion, for which you need certainty. I didn't think in terms of Asperger's back then, because I still thought that Aspies where a kind of walking cadavers, devoid of emotion and empathy, utterly abnormal and dysfunctional people (it's amusing I've turned out to be one of them, and I even apparently fit my own prejudiced characterisation better than many other Aspergians) -- and she clearly didn't fit that image.

I started thinking about her more and more. It wasn't lust, but it was a gradually growing obsession in the sense that I became more and more interested about her, and I watched her -- we lived and studied together, so there was plenty of opportunity. I tried to analyse her personality by watching her behaviour, as I used to think I had a talent for reading people. Apparently I don't, you know. I couldn't talk to her. I almost never did, because it's hard for me to talk to almost all people, including most close friends -- with girls it's worse, with girls I like -- much, much worse. Debilitating. So I hardly ever talked to her, but the obsession grew, and by the end of our time in the commune, when I realised there wasn't much time left, I decided that I'd at least get this off my heart. It was nonsense to expect forming a relationship, because she wouldn't have been interested; because I'm not capable of sustaining such a level of intimacy; and because anyway, the spell would've been broken for me were I to realise she is flesh and blood and not a pretty image. So I didn't expect anything. At least I thought I didn't.

So I sent her a message on the mobile phone, asking her to speak with me when she's got time. When the time had come, we went to a privet location, and I told her: "I love you". She got very confused, and told me that maybe I don't love her but just like her. "I'm an extreme person. I don't experience that sort of emotions. I either love people or I hate them". So she said she hoped I wouldn't come to hate her, and then said she "believed in spontaneity" and that "if it didn't happen till know, maybe it wasn't meant to happen" -- and also that there were still a couple of days and we could still get to know each other better. I said: "I don't believe in the notion of being 'meant to happen'; everything of substance that I've achieved, I've achieved by putting great effort into it", and about 'maybe we'll still get to know each other' I said: "I think that's the sort of thing people say but never do".

I wasn't able to simply let go, though that was my initial intention. Eventually the conversation went on some more time and came to look like I was trying to trick her into going for a date with me anyway, and hell, I don't know if it wasn't my subconscious intention. For the next couple of days I tried to talk to her casually, telling myself that I just want to befriend her, because she's an interesting person. Eventually I stayed up till very late just to be able to try and talk to her, and she wasn't very communicative (neither was I, hell). And I ended up getting very hurt. I sent her a message that went something like this (translation, translation): "I'm sorry I'm weird and creepy and don't know how to communicate. I'm sorry if I hurt you on Monday (and I think I did), and I'm sorry if I frightened you (which I also think I did). I'm f****d up, and the fact that I'm writing you all this in a text message at 5 AM only proves it. I want you to be happy -- really, and not because it's what I'm supposed to say. I stayed at the party for so long just to be able to exchange a couple of words with you. I won't bother you any more. Sorry. And please don't call to apologise, what's important is that I hurt you feelings, I can handle my own emotions. God, I'm insane if I ever send this."

Which can be condensed to: "I'm extremely hurt, and I don't want to speak with you ever again". Though you have to admit it doesn't sound quite as dramatic.

Next morning I went to her apartment and sat on the balcony while she was brushing her teeth and dressing up. (Our commune lived in two communal apartments, each containing ten people). I used to sit there all the time, so it was "perfectly normal". When she saw me, she told me she wanted to reply to my text message. She said she wanted this "thing" to be over and that she never felt that "it had anything to do with her", which now I find a very strange thing to say. Hell, it's you whom I love, woman, not the bloody neighbour's daughter (a good thing too, since that girl's about eight years old). How can it not have anything to do with you? But I didn't tell her that. I lost it, and told her something like "I understand", because I got a mind-block, and wasn't really able to think. Now I think she probably just didn't know what to tell me, so there came this strange thing: "it has nothing to do with me". Still, it's a strange way to say "I'm not interested" (which she never told me, by the way, at least not in our first conversation). I spoke with her once more after that, trying to make her remember me as a not-so-negative figure, and though I don't think I did too well, I hope she doesn't remember me with too much discomfort, if she remembers me at all.



Janissy
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14 Oct 2011, 12:19 pm

Chuzhack wrote:
Next morning I went to her apartment and sat on the balcony while she was brushing her teeth and dressing up. (Our commune lived in two communal apartments, each containing ten people). I used to sit there all the time, so it was "perfectly normal". When she saw me, she told me she wanted to reply to my text message. She said she wanted this "thing" to be over and that she never felt that "it had anything to do with her", which now I find a very strange thing to say. Hell, it's you whom I love, woman, not the bloody neighbour's daughter (a good thing too, since that girl's about eight years old). How can it not have anything to do with you? But I didn't tell her that. I lost it, and told her something like "I understand", because I got a mind-block, and wasn't really able to think. Now I think she probably just didn't know what to tell me, so there came this strange thing: "it has nothing to do with me". Still, it's a strange way to say "I'm not interested" (which she never told me, by the way, at least not in our first conversation). I spoke with her once more after that, trying to make her remember me as a not-so-negative figure, and though I don't think I did too well, I hope she doesn't remember me with too much discomfort, if she remembers me at all.


You should take that explanation literally. As I was reading your long story, I thought to myself, "this is going to end badly because he'll discover the reality of her is nothing like what he imagined." And that more or less is how it ended. You observed her intensely from afar and gleaned enough information to build up an avatar of her in your head that represented her. Then you fell in love with that avatar, thinking it was her. But it wasn't. You were in love with something inside your imagination roughly based on her. That's what she meant by it having nothing to do with her.

The lesson from this is that you should not declare your love for somebody unless you are actually in a relationship with them. Until you are in a relationship, you don't know them well enough to know whether you love them or not. If you think you love them in the absence of a relationship, what you are actually loving is your imagined version of what you think they would be like if you knew them as thoroughly as somebody in a relationship. This imaginary version won't be accurate.



Wolfheart
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14 Oct 2011, 12:20 pm

Chuzhack wrote:
I wasn't able to simply let go, though that was my initial intention. Eventually the conversation went on some more time and came to look like I was trying to trick her into going for a date with me anyway, and hell, I don't know if it wasn't my subconscious intention. For the next couple of days I tried to talk to her casually, telling myself that I just want to befriend her, because she's an interesting person. Eventually I stayed up till very late just to be able to try and talk to her, and she wasn't very communicative (neither was I, hell). And I ended up getting very hurt. I sent her a message that went something like this (translation, translation): "I'm sorry I'm weird and creepy and don't know how to communicate. I'm sorry if I hurt you on Monday (and I think I did), and I'm sorry if I frightened you (which I also think I did). I'm f**** up, and the fact that I'm writing you all this in a text message at 5 AM only proves it. I want you to be happy -- really, and not because it's what I'm supposed to say. I stayed at the party for so long just to be able to exchange a couple of words with you. I won't bother you any more. Sorry. And please don't call to apologise, what's important is that I hurt you feelings, I can handle my own emotions. God, I'm insane if I ever send this."

Which can be condensed to: "I'm extremely hurt, and I don't want to speak with you ever again". Though you have to admit it doesn't sound quite as dramatic.

Next morning I went to her apartment and sat on the balcony while she was brushing her teeth and dressing up. (Our commune lived in two communal apartments, each containing ten people). I used to sit there all the time, so it was "perfectly normal". When she saw me, she told me she wanted to reply to my text message. She said she wanted this "thing" to be over and that she never felt that "it had anything to do with her", which now I find a very strange thing to say. Hell, it's you whom I love, woman, not the bloody neighbour's daughter (a good thing too, since that girl's about eight years old). How can it not have anything to do with you? But I didn't tell her that. I lost it, and told her something like "I understand", because I got a mind-block, and wasn't really able to think. Now I think she probably just didn't know what to tell me, so there came this strange thing: "it has nothing to do with me". Still, it's a strange way to say "I'm not interested" (which she never told me, by the way, at least not in our first conversation). I spoke with her once more after that, trying to make her remember me as a not-so-negative figure, and though I don't think I did too well, I hope she doesn't remember me with too much discomfort, if she remembers me at all.


You most likely put a huge obligation and burden on her without first building up comfort and familiarity with her, this most likely in turn left her as confused as you. You built your expectations up with a girl that was showing little reciprocation and expected her to run into your arms. You showed signs of being clingy, insecure and desperate and most likely involved her in something that she herself didn't feel obligated to be in. In all honesty, you should have built comfort and honesty with her first, built up positive emotions between each other. At least you'll be able to take this as a positive learning experience and move on a stronger person.



Last edited by Wolfheart on 14 Oct 2011, 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chuzhack
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14 Oct 2011, 12:44 pm

Janissy wrote:
[ You should take that explanation literally. As I was reading your long story, I thought to myself, "this is going to end badly because he'll discover the reality of her is nothing like what he imagined." And that more or less is how it ended. You observed her intensely from afar and gleaned enough information to build up an avatar of her in your head that represented her. Then you fell in love with that avatar, thinking it was her. But it wasn't. You were in love with something inside your imagination roughly based on her. That's what she meant by it having nothing to do with her.

The lesson from this is that you should not declare your love for somebody unless you are actually in a relationship with them. Until you are in a relationship, you don't know them well enough to know whether you love them or not. If you think you love them in the absence of a relationship, what you are actually loving is your imagined version of what you think they would be like if you knew them as thoroughly as somebody in a relationship. This imaginary version won't be accurate.


The Avatar thing is something I thought about, but it didn't occur to me that she might have thought about it too. It makes sense, I guess.

Well, I don't know how much you can "really know a person" anyway. But you can probably know more than I did about her :wink:.

Actually, on a conscious level, at least, all I wanted to do was declare my love, since I've been so engulfed by it for so long. I didn't expect her "to rush into my hands". I'm not even interested in romantic relationships at all -- because I like avatars, but I find most people intolerable, and anyone who tries to be intimate with me will probably find it very frustrating. Anyway, I'd lie if I told that I didn't want her to rush into my hands, I just didn't expect it on a rational level. The situation wouldn't have ended so unpleasantly if I had really given up, thoroughly.

It was really a selfish thing that I did, really. Since she wouldn't have gained anything out of it anyway.



seoulgamer
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14 Oct 2011, 12:49 pm

Quote:
Actually, on a conscious level, at least, all I wanted to do was declare my love, since I've been so engulfed by it for so long.


There's no point in telling someone how you feel about them unless you think they might be interested in a relationship with you. Simply telling them to relieve your feelings will just freak them out, and it really isn't worth it. If you don't think that they feel the same way, move on and try to forget about them. Just isn't worth it.


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Chuzhack
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14 Oct 2011, 12:55 pm

seoulgamer wrote:
Quote:
Actually, on a conscious level, at least, all I wanted to do was declare my love, since I've been so engulfed by it for so long.


There's no point in telling someone how you feel about them unless you think they might be interested in a relationship with you. Simply telling them to relieve your feelings will just freak them out, and it really isn't worth it. If you don't think that they feel the same way, move on and try to forget about them. Just isn't worth it.


It does seem so, doesn't it. Oh, People. Why do they always freak out about bizarre things like hearing the truth, and never freak out about the really important things -- like being cut in line or being called "honey" by some cashier :wink: . (It's a middle-eastern country, hell.)

EDIT: Actually, people do freak out when cut in line. But not nearly as often as they should...



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14 Oct 2011, 1:09 pm

seoulgamer wrote:
There's no point in telling someone how you feel about them unless you think they might be interested in a relationship with you. Simply telling them to relieve your feelings will just freak them out, and it really isn't worth it. If you don't think that they feel the same way, move on and try to forget about them. Just isn't worth it.


Exactly, you're simply setting yourself up for disappointment and hurt, I think we also tend to take certain characteristics and expressions at face value. Many young girls are flirtatious and shows indications of love and feel the need for attention or affection, it doesn't necessarily indicate that they want to be obliged to someone. It's better to take things slowly, ask her for a coffee, try to look for indicators that she at least likes you, if she shows signs of reciprocation, you know you're getting somewhere. Dropping a bombshell all at once can be disappointing without building comfort or allowing the other person to build up an image or opinion of you first based on conversation, compatibility and connectivity.



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14 Oct 2011, 1:37 pm

I wonder if she said, it isn't about me in response to your text message. I'm guessing that you both went to a party after you told her you had feelings for her. She possibly then had an expectation of how you would behave toward her.

I'll draw some experiences from my friends. I have a male friend who likes this girl, so he has been spending time getting to know her. At parties he talks to his friends and then goes and sits and talks to her. He maybe includes her in the conversation he has with his buddies. This girl maybe expected you to behave this way. She may have been dubious that you had real feelings for her because you didn't seem to want to be near her and enjoy being with her or enjoy talking to her.

Years ago my sister was told by this guy that he liked her, but they were at a party together and he didn't talk to her once. She was hurt. He text her later to say sorry, but you can't build a relationship like that. In actuality this problem was nothing to do with her it was about his insecurities. She would have talked to him, but he shut her out and hid in a group of his buddies.

This text you sent was full of angst, full of how you feel messed up. That isn't about her, it's about you and how you deal with things.

So this is a stepping stone for you. A cchance to grow :)

People don't complain when someone cuts in line because it's not personal. No one is asking them for anything, they're not asking them to become emotionally invested in anything. All they have to do is step aside and never see the line cutter again.

When someone tells you they love you, that is so much more important. The person who reveals their feelings is changing the relationship. They are asking for an emotional response. Even if the person doesn't feel tthe same way, they still respond emotionally, the guilty pain of unintentionally hurting another person by saying i'm sorry, I don't love you back is so much more awkward or more emotinally consuming than ignoring a rude customer.



hale_bopp
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14 Oct 2011, 2:56 pm

"I want this thing to be over"

translates into:

"Please stop obsessing over me/following me/texting me about your feelings. Just go back to who you normally are and how everything was before you started." and "It's annoying and creepy".

"It has nothing to do with me"

Translates into

"It's not my problem. Please stop dragging me into your mess of feelings, I did not lead you on"

Basically she can't understand why you're obsessed with her and she wants you to just drop it. She hardly knows you, and sees you as a stranger/aquaintence so can't understand what the obsession is about.



MsBugaloo
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14 Oct 2011, 3:20 pm

"It was really a selfish thing that I did, really."


Uh... yeah! I enjoyed the bloody post of the bloody wacky kibbutz situation.

We experience other people as WE are. We are always having a relationship with our own soul, our own primal psychology, our own imbalances, our own harmonies.

The reactions, emotions, and sensations we experience are our very own. And if we are full of these reactions, and addicted to them rather than questioning and observing them, well.... there sure isn't much room for actually relating to another person. Start observing this and some great stuff can happen that will allow you to develop a real relationship.

This lady sounds like a high EQ/IQ gal, to have kept her cool with your self-centered, fantasy-based behavior. She coulda just called some Krav Maga guys in, because you were obviously appearing unstable in an UNATTRACTIVE way.

Concentrate on becoming more observant of your mind, and learn that you are not your mind, and it will make you the kind of steady and courageous guy that can develop a real friendship (and if he has a team of therapists, AS authors, and support groups behind him, that's just fine). For more on this, you might wanna check out vipassana meditation www.dhamma.org