What does being "unable to lie" mean?

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League_Girl
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25 Oct 2011, 2:15 pm

My husband says I can't lie but I can. He says I can't lie because he can tell I am lying and I am not good at it. Sure I can lie but people can tell I am lying. Also I have noticed when he asks me a question, the truth comes out first. Sure I can think ahead of time about how to answer a question and keep that answer in my head for when I get asked it next time, that answer will come out so of course I can lie. Now I wonder if I had been taking "unable to lie" literal so I always thought people were bullshitting when they said they can't lie. So I always thought how hard is it to say the sky is brown or a blue pen is red? If you can write fiction, you can lie because lying is like telling a fictional story so writing a fictional story is like lying except everyone knows it's fiction because you aren't saying it really happened. I always took it as people choose to not lie, there is a big different between being unable to lie and choosing not to lie, choosing not to lie is not being unable to lie. I also think if you can lie about one thing, then you are able to lie about other things. Since I used to lie as a kid, I will never say I can't lie or I am unable to. And I can easily lie when I am ashamed or embarrassed. So of course I can lie. Being unable to lie means never lie no matter what so that means you can't lie when you are embarrassed about something so you tell the truth than denying it and you can't lie to protect yourself from bullies. So if someone told me they can't lie and then I found out they lied about something, I will think what they said about not being able to lie was BS and they can to lie and call them out on it like I had with my ex. I told him if he could lie about his medical condition, then he can lie about everything else too. So I refused to buy he couldn't lie. Even though he tried to explain how different that was, I still saw it was all the same because he said he can't lie but he could about his medical condition so therefore he can lie. Either you can lie or you can't. If if you can, you are able to lie. So when my husband tells me I can't lie, I start lying to him to show him I can lie and he laughs when I tell him "see I can lie, I just lied."

Now I wonder if being unable to lie just means you can lie but people can tell you are lying or the truth always comes out first and then you can lie but it doesn't come natural to you so the truth comes out first before you lie. Also the fact you have to force yourself to lie. But to me that isn't being unable to lie. Bad wording people do there. Or maybe I am just being literal and "being unable to lie" is a figure of speech?



Last edited by League_Girl on 25 Oct 2011, 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Daryl_Blonder
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25 Oct 2011, 2:36 pm

I feel dizzy from all the "lies" in your post... LOL

But seriously, it comes down to what you said in the first few sentences. Our lies are easily uncovered. The only time I've been successful at it, is when I've "charmed" my audience; in other words, they think I'm too innocent to lie. In theory this is increasingly difficult as I get older, but I haven't practiced in a long time, I have no reason to lie and find it morally repugnant.

As for lying about feelings, in the name of "social grace"... f*** that. If you ask for my opinion, you'll get it.

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25 Oct 2011, 2:47 pm

I think most people use "cannot lie" as "cannot effectively lie", which bothers me.

Personally, I cannot lie in the literal sense. I've yet to meet anyone else (or even read posts by anyone else) who is like this and am curious about anyone else who functions in the same manner as I do here.

When I say "I cannot lie" I mean "If I attempt to speak something that I know is untrue for the person I am acting as at the moment, then I lose the ability to speak in the same manner as if I had a complete shutdown." What I mean by "for the person I am acting as" I mean I can play a character, but that character can't lie. I know I'm not that character, but it is a character I am presenting. On the other hand, tiny things without consequence I cannot speak if I try to say something I know is false. (We've tested it.) It doesn't matter how much I want to make that statement, it won't come out, in the same manner that it doesn't matter how much I want to talk if I'm in a shutdown that affects speech, it won't come out.

When I was young enough I was able to lie but it bothered me a huge amount. I remember exactly one lie in my life, I lied about liking a particular type of candy. This traumatized me to the point that even now, likely 15 years later, I have a strong memory and am actually upset by the situation. Since that point (or not long after), I've been unable to speak a lie because it feels like my vocal cords won't possibly make noise if I try to force them to in such a situation.

I'm rather compared to an Aes Sedai by the people I know because of this...and have actually had people say that they're far more scared of me misleading them than others because my misleading would be in the form of every last thing I say is true, just not giving the correct implications, and thus the normal defenses to identify lies tend to work far worse.



Ann2011
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25 Oct 2011, 2:47 pm

I can force myself to lie if I feel I have to, but I'm not very good at it. I usually start giggling or blathering, so I'm sure everyone knows. I try to avoid lying wherever possible; it gives me a feeling of "unreality" that don't like.



Eloa
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25 Oct 2011, 2:54 pm

People also tell me that I cannot lie. It's like someone asked me:"Do you still smoke?" (I had stopped and started again). I hesitated answering, because somehow I didn't wanted to tell (meaning: I wanted to lie) but finally I said, yes, I still smoke. There he said: "You cannot lie".
I guess, when you "can" lie, then you just tell what you want to tell. If you "can't" lie, you hesitate because you have to make up a whole other story and then they apparently know you are about to lie or if you don't lie they know you actually wanted to, but you cannot...I guess?



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25 Oct 2011, 2:55 pm

Well, it's just harder for most autistic people to lie. It's a sophisticated social skill, and not easily mastered. Many of us don't bother to try to master it because there are just many more useful things to spend our effort on.

Lying is something that requires a good deal of multi-tasking. You have to keep in mind--simultaneously--the truth and how to hide it; your target's state of mind and what lie they would accept as truth; and your own face, voice, and choice of words. That is a very difficult juggling act. It's no wonder that if you have Asperger's it's very difficult to do. It can even be difficult to keep up with the pace of conversation well enough to figure out when a lie might be appropriate.

There's one mental trick that works if you have a good imagination, and that is to pretend that the lie is true. That reduces the amount of multi-tasking you need to do. But I think it's probably a better approach to learn diplomacy--to be able to tell the truth in a way that won't hurt others. That doesn't tax your mental resources so much.


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25 Oct 2011, 2:57 pm

Well, I don't think it's black or white or should be taken too literally. There's certainly nothing wrong with self-protection if you come in the presence of a bully.

However, I have found that alot of people i've known (not all) but alot manipulate/lie alot to get what they want and/or to hurt someone. And they think nothing is wrong with it cuz "everyone does it", or "something is wrong with you if you don't lie." (Those are actual real quotes from my psychotic mother btw) Don't fall into their trap, or think you have to be like them.

Most people with autism are alot more spiritually advanced than others, whether they realize yet or not. Most spiritually advanced people don't fit into this world for that very reason. With that, comes integrity, and I think for some (especially me) I think lying to manipulate or hurt someone is an ugly character trait. (and shows they are not very advanced)



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25 Oct 2011, 3:04 pm

I find it very difficult to lie when put on the spot. I tend to giggle and blush.

I can just about lie on the phone if I have had chance to prepare it in advance.

I can hide the truth by not saying anything about something, which morally, to me, is different to actually lying, so it doesn't bother me, especially if I'm hiding the truth to spare someone's feelings.

As the OP said, I can tell a lie - but it's not convincing and I dislike doing it.


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25 Oct 2011, 3:33 pm

I must admit, I do lie a lot when I need to (I don't mean here on WP, I just mean when a situation comes when I need to lie). Must be an Aspie trait I don't have, because many times I have got away with lying.


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DeanAdamFry
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25 Oct 2011, 3:54 pm

I can't lie, I tend to pull a straight face then burst out laughing the next second, the only time I can lie if its something important then I show no signs of it and people believe me (like for example, if I knew someones real dad but then someone asks me if I know, I can simply say no and play it off as if I don't know what he is talking about).

Basically it has to be something serious and in my mind right for me to lie effectively otherwise I fail badly.



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25 Oct 2011, 4:04 pm

I don't want to lie. So I don't.

As I have told my wife several times. If you don't want the answer, don't ask.



League_Girl
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25 Oct 2011, 4:31 pm

I just attempted to lie to my husband again. He reorganized our baby's room and I was against the whole idea at first because of the major change but he told me I would like it and trust him. So he reorganized and I liked it because of what he did. He is a better organizer than me and knows what he is doing. So he asked me what did I think and I said "I like it" and then I said "No it sucks" and he laughed and told me he thinks it's so cute when I try to lie and fail every time.

Darn it, I fall into this trap every time. Rarely am I able to lie first when I am asked an unexpected question. Only time it's easy is if it's something I am embarrassed about or something I don't want to admit like when I was a kid I do something wrong and then lie about it when I get asked about it or get into trouble.

I can think of a list of questions in my head about what if I am asked this or that and I think of the answer to them and they be my scripts so that way I can lie without the truth coming out.



ScottyN
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25 Oct 2011, 4:31 pm

I can exaggerate, but find actually lying about things very difficult, if not impossible.



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25 Oct 2011, 4:43 pm

I'm actually pretty good at lying, when I actually have thought of the entire lie before I say it, even though I rarely do it. This is because I don't change much when lying from when I'm telling the truth. I find it no harder to look someone in the eye while lying than normally, I've trained myself to conceal inappropriate smiling/laughing to the point where I can do it as much while I'm lying as at any other time, and I'm overall an honest person so people are more likely to believe me. I actually have more of a problem with people thinking I'm lying when I'm just getting defensive as I loose my compose more at those times than when I'm lying. This probably actually makes it easier for me to lie as they believe that if I'm not acting like how I do when I'm defensive than I'm not lying. I avoid lying as I much as possible as I find it immoral/unethical, I don't want to risk getting caught, I prefer hearing the brutal truth, and I'm not good at thinking up lies on the spot. However, I do twist the truth by using technicalities, ambiguous statements, and leaving stuff out when I have to. When I actually lie it's usually just to play along with a little prank or something.



Mack27
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25 Oct 2011, 5:09 pm

I have trouble lying, even on the phone. I can be deceptive without lying though. For example I could say "I got a flat tire. I'm going to be late." These are both true but unrelated statements. I didn't say when I got the flat tire. The person on the other end of the phone will assume that I'm going to be late because of the flat tire, when really I'm going to be late because I was looking at posts on Wrong Planet.



evilduck
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25 Oct 2011, 5:11 pm

Mack27 wrote:
I have trouble lying, even on the phone. I can be deceptive without lying though. For example I could say "I got a flat tire. I'm going to be late." These are both true but unrelated statements. I didn't say when I got the flat tire. The person on the other end of the phone will assume that I'm going to be late because of the flat tire, when really I'm going to be late because I was looking at posts on Wrong Planet.

Perfect. This is what I do as well.