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Klint
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30 Oct 2011, 2:31 pm

I've been wondering this for the past week or so, but couldn't find any information on the subject. But does anyone suppose it's possible that a planet or moon that is fairly hollow (sponge-like even) could have just enough oxygen (or any other gas) to sustain an atmosphere, yet have it limited to below the planet's surface? :duh:



naturalplastic
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30 Oct 2011, 2:50 pm

some have theorized that there is a whole 'nother civilization at the core of the earth that can only be accessed via the North Pole.

And thats where all of the flying saucers come from.

People who have espoused that generally reside in rubber rooms.

But anythings possible, but ..

you're talking about a rocky planet (as opposed to a gas giant) that has an outer layer of rock and or soil, but has one or more layers of earth-like atmosphere beneath that rocky crust.

Thats a highly unlikely thing to evolve in nature for the simple reason that a planet would tend to coalese in such a way that the heavier denser stuffs ends up near the core and the lighter stuff ends up on the surface. So a layer of gaseous atmosphere is unlike to form BENEATH a layor of rock and or soil- (unless some really advanced aliens were to engineer a whole artificial planet ofcourse).



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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30 Oct 2011, 4:25 pm

I think some of Earth's atmosphere came from outgassing and differentiation of lighter elements. Although much of the oxygen did come from photosynthesizing orgasms in what's known as the "oxygen catastrophe" (catastrophic if you're a one-celled little organism who can't handle oxygen!)

Okay, so the possibility you're asking about, it's just incomplete outgassing and the planet is left spongy.



langers
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30 Oct 2011, 5:33 pm

I have to agree with the other posts that gravity would pull in the heavier, denser elements toward the center and the lighter gasses would rise outward. I suppose anything is possible (aliens, huge gas pockets, weird planetary formation) but this is highly unlikely.



AstroGeek
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30 Oct 2011, 7:41 pm

Planetary scientists seem to think that hollow planets would not be stable (as far as I can tell). Spongy planets strike me as slightly more likely, but not much. Plus, the surface layer would have to be really deep, or else the atmosphere would all escape whenever the planet was hit by an asteroid.



ruveyn
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30 Oct 2011, 7:44 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
Planetary scientists seem to think that hollow planets would not be stable (as far as I can tell). Spongy planets strike me as slightly more likely, but not much. Plus, the surface layer would have to be really deep, or else the atmosphere would all escape whenever the planet was hit by an asteroid.


One would think that planets have an inner portion that is denser than its outer layer. That would be true for a "rocky" planet as well as a gaseous planet.

I don't see how a purely hollow planet could form from nebular material in the first place.

ruveyn



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31 Oct 2011, 1:45 am

Some asteroids (and comets) are small enough that they can be more-or-less like a loose rubble pile. But they are way, way too small to hold an atmosphere. (There are several bodies in our solar system that are spherical due to gravity, but don't have an atmosphere, including our Moon.) Anything large enough to have an atmosphere would definitely be large enough that gravity would deform it into a nearly spherical shape, so even if you magically made a giant sponge the size of the Earth, it definitely wouldn't resemble a sponge in the center.

You could think about a sponge-like layer on the surface, but if gravity were too low to keep the atmosphere, it would escape anyway, and if gravity were high enough to keep it, you wouldn't need a sponge layer in the first place.


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AstroGeek
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31 Oct 2011, 10:18 am

Ancalagon wrote:
Some asteroids (and comets) are small enough that they can be more-or-less like a loose rubble pile. But they are way, way too small to hold an atmosphere.

I wouldn't really call them spongey in any case. More like a bean-bag.



ruveyn
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31 Oct 2011, 10:58 am

AstroGeek wrote:
Ancalagon wrote:
Some asteroids (and comets) are small enough that they can be more-or-less like a loose rubble pile. But they are way, way too small to hold an atmosphere.

I wouldn't really call them spongey in any case. More like a bean-bag.


Good analogy. Not solid. And certainly not hollow.

ruveyn



Klint
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31 Oct 2011, 2:26 pm

Thanks for all the replies!

I know it's unlikely that a planet like the one I'm describing is highly unlikely to occur naturally without collapsing into a somewhat solid spheroid first, but I find hypotheticals like this interesting because the thought of a subterranean atmosphere interesting.

It also reminds me of these articles I found a while back explaining what a cubic Earth would be like if it's existence were possible, for those interested:

http://possiblywrong.wordpress.com/2011 ... re-a-cube/

http://www.askamathematician.com/2011/0 ... -possible/



ruveyn
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31 Oct 2011, 4:34 pm

Klint wrote:

It also reminds me of these articles I found a while back explaining what a cubic Earth would be like if it's existence were possible, for those interested:

/


Given the spherical symmetry of the gravitational field a cube shaped earth is not possible.

That is the reason why planets are oblate spheroids. The gravitational field insists on spheres and the rotation flattens them a bit.

ruveyn



AstroGeek
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31 Oct 2011, 7:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Klint wrote:

It also reminds me of these articles I found a while back explaining what a cubic Earth would be like if it's existence were possible, for those interested:

/


Given the spherical symmetry of the gravitational field a cube shaped earth is not possible.

That is the reason why planets are oblate spheroids. The gravitational field insists on spheres and the rotation flattens them a bit.

ruveyn

In a book by my favourite author (in which some wizards accidentally create our universe in a bottle) someone tried to come up with a series of rules governing this universe we live in:
Quote:
Ponder was working the Rules again. Now they read:
THE RULES
1 Things fall apart, but centres hold
2 Everything moves in curves
3 You get balls
4 Big balls tell space to bend
5 There are no turtles anywhere
(after this one he'd added Except ordinary ones)
6 Life turns up everywhere it can
7 Life turns up everywhere it can't
8 There is something like narrativium
9 There may be something called bloodimindium (see rule 7)
10 ...


I can't for the life of me remember the context of some of these, and others wouldn't make sense if you haven't read some of the books.



Klint
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01 Nov 2011, 12:14 am

ruveyn wrote:
Klint wrote:

It also reminds me of these articles I found a while back explaining what a cubic Earth would be like if it's existence were possible, for those interested:

/


Given the spherical symmetry of the gravitational field a cube shaped earth is not possible.

That is the reason why planets are oblate spheroids. The gravitational field insists on spheres and the rotation flattens them a bit.

ruveyn


Yes, yes, yes...
I knew that long before I even read these.
It's purely hypothetical. "What ifs" like this still interest me though.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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03 Nov 2011, 2:49 pm

Quote:
. . .
5 There are no turtles anywhere
(after this one he'd added Except ordinary ones)
. . .

You mean, the Universe is not turtles all the way down ? ! ?

So, no turtles (except in ponds! and, okay, ocean turtles, etc, etc. But no turtles helping to hold up planets)



AstroGeek
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03 Nov 2011, 4:33 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
Quote:
. . .
5 There are no turtles anywhere
(after this one he'd added Except ordinary ones)
. . .

You mean, the Universe is not turtles all the way down ? ! ?

So, no turtles (except in ponds! and, okay, ocean turtles, etc, etc. But no turtles helping to hold up planets)

Or holding elephants holding a giant disk full of wizards creating worlds in bell-jars. (I'm hoping you've read Terry Pratchett, or else this comment will make no sense).