Nice guys who have been treated badly

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Are you really nice?

I mean I was just thinking about some nice guys I've encountered.

They were gentle and kind, loving and friendly, would never make a bitchy comment. I had a huge surge of empathy towards them. It's quite unlike me to have a huge surge of empathy towards fully functioning adults.

I would never ever want to hurt them or be bitchy to them.

I guess if you come across a real nice guy, may not be super confident.. you can recognise it.

I mean every "nice guy" from here I've ever snapped at has made ether bitchy, rude or sexist comments or projected elitism.
I find real nice people don't really exist on the internet..

Prove me wrong.. please.. prove me wrong?

Well, when people say "nice guys", they do not mean guys who are nice but guys who have bad qualities but make it up for being nice.

the typical "nice guy" is nuetral rather than flirty, boring rather than interesting, stiff rather than humorous.

much of the time it is not even being nice, but flattery, in an attempt to get into the backdoor, when merit can't get you to the front.

Excellent point.

Its like that hipster thing, a hipster doesnt need to call himself a hipster, you know he/she is one and if they feel the need to show that they are hipsters 24/7 chances are they arent.

Same applies to the nice guys thing, a real nice guy doesnt feel the need to call himself a nice guy several times and he wouldnt show how nice he was until females hurt him because genuine nice guys arent looking for any sort of reward for their niceness towards others.

When you said you have empathy towards them, what are you referring to? Are you saying they had a very hard time getting a date or were mistreated in other ways? If so, then it seems like you are admitting that some of the "nice guy" complaints are right, after all; you are simply saying that these complaints apply to smaller group of people than claimed.



And that is very good on your part. But at the same time, you are also saying that other women (not you) were in fact mistreating them. After all, this is the reason you were feeling empathy towards them.



But would you actually date that kind of nice guy who is not super confident?



Well in my case some of what I said can be construed as the above items, but it really isn't. First of all, my comments are not "sexist" because I "also" make similar comments about MALE professors who refuse to work with me on physics. Dating is just one example of my being misjudged. So in case of dating the people who misjudge me are obviously females since I am not interesting of dating men; in case of school, they are mostly men simply because that is what statistically the makeup of physics professor happens to be. In both cases my complaint is similar in nature.

Secondly, my comments are not elitist either. I don't claim myself to be "better" than others. What goes on is that I perceive myself as a victim and as a result I am asking not to be treated "worse" than others and instead to be "equal". Now, in other people's minds I am "elitist" because I come across as saying that the rules should somehow change "just" for me. Actually I am not saying it. My claim is that "rules are unfair, period". Here are two posts where I was exclusively focused on defending the "others" in my situation:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt178123.html

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt179133.html

And by the way, the first of the above two posts (the one on dating) was made by a female (while the "job" post was by a male). As you can see I was on the "female" side on that one, since now the female was the one who was the victim. So I am clearly not sexist: I just hate the concept of rejection, regardless of who rejects whom.

Now, where I "do" come across is selfish is the fact that the above two people (and the few who share their fate) are probably the only ones I really feel any empathy towards. In other words, I can't truly care about other people's predicament unless I can somehow relate it to myself. But this is not called "elitism". It is called "obsession". I am obsessed about the topic of rejection (whether the rejectee is myself or not), hence I care about people who were rejected as opposed to, for example, people who were born in poverty.

Also part of it is probably lack of experience. For example, a few years ago I was dating a girl named Jennifer who had polycistic ovaries. She was bleeding a lot and as a result she was fainting and so forth. In that specific case I was "nice" in a sense that you described. I weren't looking for a reward; I simply felt bad for her. In fact, throughout the second year of a relationship, I didn't want to be with her any more because she was starting fights. But at the same time I never broke up with her (she was the one who eventually broke up with me) because I felt horrible about the prospect of hurting her.

In other words, being with her was not a reward at all; it was more like a burden; yet I was willing to carry that burden. And no, it had nothing to do with being desperate to be with someone. During these two years my attitude was "if I am ever lucky enough to get out of it, I will never date anyone in my entire life, I want my freedom back". The one and ONLY reason I was with her is that I felt pity for her. In fact, even if I were to meet a perfect girl at that time, I would turn her down simply because I didn't want to hurt Jennifer.

Now, after I have dated Jennifer, I started to have sympathy towards everything else that reminds me of "weakness" or "sickness" and so forth. In fact I even started feeling sorry for flowers lying on a road because I keep identifying them with that girl; so I routinely taking them away so that the car won't drive over them. Now, I never was that sensitive until I met that girl who was sick. Likewise, I never was sensitive towards that topic of rejection until I was rejected myself several times.

So I guess perhaps the real issue is that I can only have empathy towards things I have actually experienced. In my case, my life experiences are very limitted: they pretty much are summed up by my own rejections and Jennifer's illness. Hence these "themes" are the only ones that affect me. Other people probably had far wider life experiences, and thats why they can relate to more. In my case I was very isolated all my life. This is probably why it is difficult to "genuinely care" about things I haven't seen or experienced.

Nope, I am a jerk.

I am considered a "nice guy" by many women. I think I am a good person. I am not the most confident person either but I don't let others walk all over me (at least, not any more). Perhaps this is why I am not cynical like many "nice guys" become after being used or whatever. I like women for more than just their bodies (most of my close friends have been/are women). I've been mistreated very, very badly by women in relationships in the past but that hasn't turned me into a misogynistic, sexist elitist yet. As far as I know you have never snapped at me as I don't think I've ever done anything to piss you off (at least I hope not cause I think you're very funny and sweet). There are plenty of nice people on the internet, its just filtering through all the crap to find them I guess.

Btw, it seems that not only some guys are obssessed in analyzing the nice vs jerk thing, but also some girls here are obssessed about analyzing the variant species of nice guys (the genuine, the weak, the clingy, the idiot sweet, the closet jerk....etc) and how some species are worse than jerks and why dating even rudes/jerks would be better than them.....etc

It makes me wonder....

Anyways, live and let live.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 02 Nov 2011, 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

yeah this is true.

I may have said this in another thread, but I don't consider myself a nice guy. The word "nice" is a little vague. I consider myself a good guy. I have good and bad traits. Unfortunately my trust issues get in the way sometimes. Maybe this is part of the reason I have no success with women. But even before that, I never really had any luck, and after a while, just stopped truly caring.

I seem to give off a creep vibe to a lot of people. Which doesn't make sense; I don't stare, or talk about overly violent things, or any of the stuff that people consider creepy. I like myself, the only issue is getting others to like me. After all, it sucks being alone in the world.

I definitely can relate to this. And I think that has something to do with why certain people dislike us--our sense of whom to like or not, and whom to pity vs. whom to hate, is rudimentary and also based on a sense of fairness that others may not adhere to in their everyday lives. So we may rail against things that others just consider "a fact of life", and may treat someone based on his overt behavior vs. on an analysis of all the hidden agendas that may be behind that behavior, or on how socially popular people may judge the behavior.

As something distinct but slightly related, the other day I was in a bar and there were two rather nice looking older women there. One had some wrinkles below her eyes that I thought looked not only a little cute, but also just interesting, how they branched out in radiating lines. I actually commented to her on how they looked cool, as I was having a conversation with her (I don't think I actually used the word "cool", but that's basically what I said).

Of course, I knew that most men wouldn't find wrinkles of any kind beautiful, and would probably think something negative, but would avoid saying anything to not hurt her feelings. I also knew that people hearing my comment could either think I was lying just to make her think she looked perfect, or else could think I'm weird for liking something that is generally considered a flaw. However, I was buzzed enough to not care about looking weird (not that I care that strongly when sober, for that matter), and I wanted to see what would happen. I knew that I'd find a woman who actually took the comment as endearing more attractive than one who didn't.

She responded by telling me, in a way sort of like a parent to a child, that wrinkles are not generally considered attractive. I have a smile that many consider childlike and/or innocent, so I'm not surprised that she realized I meant what I said. I just responded truthfully, saying that I knew, but that hers were interesting to me. She left soon, anyway, but that was a fun little conversation.

yes, that would be accurate. but take out the quote marks - you are actually very nice without any sarcastic qualifications like that.

I was a nice guy once. Then i started dating.

aww thank you hyperlexian!

In this world, there is no right or wrong so 'nice guys' is a bit of a stereotype Just like perfect.

Well I saw their kindness and lack of ulterior motives and thought deeply to myself that they really deserve to be happy. I just mean in general.. like I think to myself they deserve to be happy in life.
Also most of the nice guy complaints aren't right, as they're usually b*tchy whining, a real nice guy probably wouldn't complain at all and just take it in his stride.



I'm not. I'm merely thinking they don't DESERVE to be mistreated.



Yes, if he had qualities that I found attractive. I don't date people simply because they are "nice" I have to be attracted to them.