Bedtime Battles

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I hesitate to even call them battles, because I don’t want to see it as a lose/win situation. But it is pretty draining on mommy!! The thing is, we are very new to this, so I am trying to figure out where to ‘draw the line’ when it comes to what is negotiable and what is a rule. A lot of you have good tips on parenting from experience, so I thought I’d throw this out there.

Last night’s bedtime was so draining, as they often are. We do our routines, which our DS (4 ½) knows well. Pajamas (he chooses his own), soft lights, stories—2 or 3 his choice, go to the bathroom, brush teeth, pray, sometimes a little talking, hugs, kisses. But what happens along the way and after just drags bedtime out and drains me. He wants to switch toothpaste to the kind we have in the other bathroom (he suddenly doesn’t like the one he chose or is concerned b/c it doesn’t ‘match’ his toothbrush), he wants to change his pajama pants or shirt b/c he is suddenly unhappy with the one he has on. Although we’ve been trying to feed him for two hours and finally got him to eat what is on his plate, he says he is hungry. I tell him he ate everything on his plate. He insists on going and SEEING his plate himself! When I tell him no and he needs to trust mommy saw his plate and it is empty, he dissolves into crying that he must see it. Then, he wants water. I give him his already prepped water cup and he says it isn’t the right one—he needs the one with the blue straw. He has decided to only drink out of blue straws because that is his favorite color. And on and on and on!!

So, you can see if I met every single little quirk and preference, we’d be running around for an hour and more changing things. We always lie down with him for bedtime until he is asleep, because he is afraid at night, so it isn’t about delaying moms departure from his room. I know that some of these are possibly real ‘needs’ for him, but where do you draw the line? I’ve thought about making two playing ‘cards’ that he can use every night to buy two ‘wishes’ (i.e. changes he can make). Then, once they are spent, he knows that’s it? Except of course for valid requests like another drink of water, another hug, etc. It’s the requests like—I HAVE to go look at my dinner plate, or I HAVE to change my socks, or I HAVE to put my toy back on it’s shelf, etc. that we need to ‘minimize’ for smoother bedtimes. But, honestly, he has a mini-meltdown (crying/begging/pleading for a few minutes) if we say no. These requests appear ‘vital’ to him. We are ok with saying no and some crying, but it is really draining, and we do want to do what we can to help him and make HIS bedtime peaceful for HIM--and us too of course.

We used to just battle. Now that we are understanding his needs more, we want to understand how to make this bedtime process smoother for us all. It's hard b/c his little sister just wants to go to bed and she has to lie there awake through all his begging/pleading/negotiations/needs!

I would try doing as many things as make sense earlier in evening and put less prep work into the bedtime routine.

Like, when you pre-fill his water cup for bedtime, have him choose the cup with the understanding that he doesn't get to choose again until the next day. Have him pick out his toothpaste and tooth brush at an earlier hour. Pick up toys earlier as well and only allow one or two out until bedtime.

Could you talk to him about bedtime during the day. Question him about his bedtime behavior and see what comes up. It might take a few conversations, but there might be issues you discover and can work out, as well as rules and concessions you can set up far away from the night when everyone is tired and not necessarily at their best.


What about using a timer? When timer goes off, light goes off.

My kids hate pajamas. They would much rather just sleep in underwear which they have done since preschool years. Could the pj/sock issue be a sensory thing?

Would a nap work? My friends kids took naps until they were 5.

And no matter how hard you work, he still might fuss/have "mini meltdowns" at bedtime. I think it is hardwired into some kids and the transitions to sleep/awake are brutal for them. For years my son cried/whined at bedtime and cried/whined at wake time. At 11, there are still vestiges of this behavior, but it has gotten better and we've had to be very flexible with strategy because they change so fast and pick up new anxieties and sensitivities all the time. Be patient and you will work this all out too I'm sure.

I would love to read peoples response as well. My youngest just turned 5 and also has some of this same rigidity - much more than his Aspie older brother. We just had him assessed through the school system here and won't get results back for at least a month, but I suspect that he won't fully qualify as ASD as far as the school is concerned. He shows some incredibly strong traits and qualified for a ASD family genetics study per the ADOS, specifically in the communication realm, but the school assessment is different.


We have issues with colors too, which I found a workable solution too. I don't even know where it started, or why it works, but whichever plate/cup/straw/fork I picked, when I hand it to him I say, "You're so lucky! You got a _________ plate and a __________fork!" He still sometimes has times where he won't accept a certain color and starts toward a meltdown, but those times have decreased. Of course, now I do it to everybody in the house, including dad. Older brother rolls his eyes, saying, "It has nothing to do with luck."

It's definitely a tricky balance and all I can recommend is lots of flexibility, especially at that age. It is very draining, but it does get better. Maybe you could try a picture schedule for the bedtime routine, if you don't already have one - even ask him what he would like on there. Maybe even ask him if there is a list of things he wants to check (his plate, his toys on the shelf, etc.) every night before bedtime. I know it might seem like building into that OCD tendency, but it probably just helps him with the order of his world. You could even make a checklist that he could check off as he does things.

I would probably gently try to limit it (which is what you already seem to be doing) and give concrete answers for things like checking plates - if you have a digital camera you could even take a picture of him with the empty plate - if he has a memory deficit (very common with ASD) he might not remember that he finished the meal, but if you show him concrete proof rather than asking him to trust you, it might make more sense to him.

I use to have this trouble when he was younger. He was 3 however he lacked the language so I just had tantrums. My solution was allowing him to watch his favourite program before bed, do his teeth, change his nappy and put on his pajama's. I then read him to sleep. I also don't read him children stories as he tended to memories these and say the words along with me. So I moved into older children's books. He's currently on Catch 22 as I need to read it or an assignment and its putting him to sleep within a chat which take 15 minutes. They might play up as they might be tired. I tend to have more melt downs if its been a long day and he's getting tired.

Another solution which has worked for one of my friends is having a chart of the bedtime routine which is stuck on a board and she and her son reads the chart together then do the activities one by one. When he is done with one he gets to post it in the little post box so a reward for completing the task. Visual routines are very big over here for all young children not just ones with ASD as it helps them understand and get oragnised what goes on.

It is soooo hard to figure out the needs vs the stalling tactics! I think my DS has some of both. If your DS gets the idea of the cards that he can play to get modifications then I say give that a try! It sounds like a good idea. As a previous poster said, try to prepare for the things you know he is going to request then if you limit his unanticipated requests with the cards, you will probably get to the heart of what is a need and what is more of a want or stalling tactic. I hear ya on how draining it can be when they pull out all the stops at bedtime! The days are so long and my cup is often so empty by bedtime that I really have a hard time when my DS gets in one of those moods and balks at going to bed.

On the dinner plate thing, that sounds like a stalling tactic. In situations like this (when DS is arguing something obviously riduculous like the sky isn't blue) I sometimes tell DS, "I'm not going to argue with you about this, that's the way its is." Then I proceed to change the subject. I don't know if that would work for you at all.

Personally, we do stories last. That way, if he has taken a particularly long time getting to bed, story time can be cut short by reading a shorter book or only one instead of multiples. If you could change the routine and use a timer, this could be a little more motivation for your DS. Set the timer when you start the pajamas and if he gets through brushing teeth and everything else quickly, he'll have extra story time. If he took a long time then story time must be shorter. Just a thought some kids don't respond well to this kind of pressure.

We had all of these issues too. What really helped was writing a schedule and posting it on the wall. You can get as detailed as you want. such as:

7:00 bath
7:15 dry off get dressed
(you can even have certain pjs for certain days to alleviate arguing)
7:20 brush teeth
7:25 have a drink of water-blue cup, blue straw
7:30 get in bed
7:35-7:55 read a book
7:55 hugs & kisses
8:00 lights off, eyes closed

the more detaled you make it and the more you treat it as "THE RULES" the less questining there is and the more my daughter felt safe and good about bedtime.

I think, also, that it's not unlikely he has a need he doesn't understand or can't articulate, and therefore goes around trying stuff to see if it's filling the need.

I just recently realized that my 11yo needs sensory input at bedtime, and the reason we have all the stalling and complaining and requests for hugs and complaints about being afraid is that he can't orient himself. I'm going to try a weighted blanket and see if that helps. This is not to say that your son's need is a weighted blanket, just that there may well be a need even he isn't aware of, and all this fuss is about that, instead of the OCD-type rigidity.

DS was so rigid that he was really leaning into OCD and Tourette's territory, but now that we've gotten a good diagnosis and have a much better idea on how to meet his needs (this year) I've found those issues to be greatly reduced (meaning, he will always CHOOSE the blue plate, but doesn't freak out when GIVEN the yellow one.) He is also the kind of kid that will go out of his way to pick a fight with you if he's feeling angry and doesn't understand why. I'm starting to learn to help him orient himself, and then some of this stuff (not all, by any manner of means) starts to fix itself.

To some extent, this comes from a normal ages and stages thing, amplified by AS.

What we did was reduce as many potential battles as possible.

There is a last call for food 15 minutes before tooth brushing time. The kids know this will be available, and they know what it means. Be very clear why you are adding it to the routine and then stick to it. To keep it from becoming an excuse not to eat a less than favorite dinner, one rule that I'd suggest is that if a good dinner was not eaten, the option at last call is the uneaten dinner (warmed up, of course), or something equally healthy that is readily available (our kids can always opt for leftovers they find in the frig instead of the offered dinner). Fruit and snack veggies are good options for this time, although my kids usually save dessert for last call.

My son goes to sleep with a GIANT sports water bottle by his bed. This solves the water issue. Same bottle every night; its his bedtime water bottle. Even travels with us. He chose the bottle way back when after we talked about why we were giving it to him and what it meant.

Ok, daughter is here (on my phone in a parking lot), so I'll have to finish later. Sorry for the inevitable typos.

Adding to the above post of mine.

Anytime you start a new routine or new rule, remember that it will take a while for the child to integrate that you are serious. Which means that at some point your child will go to sleep honestly hungry. But if you don't draw that line, you'll be playing this game forever. Be as clear as possible, have him repeat the rule, give a zillion warnings and reminders, be precise and literal (AS kids need that) and then FOLLOW THROUGH.

I honestly think that kids this age are afraid to go to sleep, so while you are busy nailing down the rules and enforcing them, it helps to do all you can to deal with the fears. Use stories to see if you can get him to acknowledge and talk about his fears, so they can be addressed. Many times I cut short my (more or less) NT daughter's endless bedtime games (she was worse than my rules oriented AS son) by stating clearly, "honey, I know you don't want to go to sleep, but everything will be OK. Your mommy and daddy love you and are right here near you. You need to sleep, you know that, or you'll be unhappy tomorrow. You have to stop fighting the routine and just go to sleep. We are not switching beds or pajamas any more, because I don't honestly believe that any of those are your real issue." Sometimes she'd just break down in tears, but I think the crying is what she really needed to do: she was all pent up full of emotions she couldn't identify and didn't know how to deal with, so all this diversion about "I need this" and "I need that" was an attempt to deal with them.

My son did well with being allowed to read to himself in bed until he fell asleep, however long that took. Giving him that option got him to stay in his room and on his bed, for that was the condition.

For my daughter, the condition became that I wouldn't stay with her while she fell asleep if she didn't settle down, stay in one bed, and stop making requests.

One thing I've noticed is that trying to add flexibility so you can respond to your children's needs can actually make it all worse. They need clarity of expectations, and consistency in enforcement. When you do make a very very rare exception, you explain that you are doing so and the exact reasons for it. When exceptions come too easily, they start to believe that all they have to do is make a compelling enough case and there it will go, you'll make the exception. If you don't, they feel like they failed, like they just didn't hit the right note, and so they go play another note, or break down from the failure. I'm such a softie, I gave in way too much, and it really just made my kids less happy. It was interesting to realize that.

Of course, sometimes they honestly misunderstood the rules, or what was happening. THAT is an argument that still wins with me, if it is clear we miscommunicated, or they didn't connect that rule A would apply to situation B. Miscommunication happens a lot with AS kids, who are not only very literal, but can't extend from situation A where they know the rule, to similar but variant situation B, so do keep an eye and ear open for it.

I have another explanation for bedtime battle with your son. It could easily be an attempt to avoid missing a fun event that always* happens after he goes to bed. I'm sure he gets a visual like this. (Try to visualize it yourself, just for fun.)

First, interior designers come in, and put up balloons, paper garlands, Christmas lights, and cardboard cut-outs of cartoon characters. Then, caterers show up, and drop off boxes of piping hot pizza, many different cakes, huge baskets of candy, and crates of soda and fruit punch. Third, costumed actors arrive. Fourth, a delivery worker drops off a big box of goody bags for everybody. Lastly, animals trainers arrive, bringing with many puppies and kittens with them. After that, the party begins! All the adults and older siblings pig out on junk food, pet the cute animals, and joke around with the actors. Then, one actor turns off the lights, leaving the room bathed in an ethereal colorful glow from the Christmas lights, and an amazing show begins, the one that makes Christmas morning pale in comparison. The party lasts all night, with everybody smiling the whole time. By morning, the actors and the animal trainers say their goodbyes and leave. A cleanup crew stops by, to eliminate all evidence of the party, making sure absolutely nothing gets left behind. The home once again looks just like it did the night before; not even a trained forensics officer would know there was a party just an hour earlier.

Meanwhile, your son is asleep, alone in a dark, quiet, empty room, with only his stuffed animals to keep him company. With your son "knowing" he's going to miss a party like this, who could blame him for stalling bedtime and/or not wanting to go to bed. Looking at it from his point of view, what's better: a 100% chance of lying alone in a dark, quiet, empty room; or a 1% chance of attending a party described in the last paragraph? Hence, the stalling.

I did not make up the scenario myself. I read it in a parenting article online, although their party scene was ran by magicians and talking animals, as opposed to by paid organizers. (I changed it to make it easier to visualize for an aspie audience, who may find magic less intriguing than NTs.) But the concept remains the same: a child does not want to "risk" missing a really fun event just because he's not allowed to stay up and attend it.
__________
* The italics indicate humorous sarcasm.

Hmmm, Aspie1, I would consider being afraid they'll miss something good to be one of the possible reasons a child might be afraid to go to sleep ... There are times I've known that was part of my daughter's thinking

Thanks, all. It's funny how getting into a rut with a bedtime routine can prevent a parent (me) from thinking objectively and creatively about how to try some changes. I think we will try to do more in advance like toothbrush choices, pajamas, and always leave stories to the end. That worked well tonight.
Aspie 1, I bet sometimes my son does delay b/c he is worried about missing some event in the world around him! One of his biggest worries is that he 'didn't get to play enough today' --he has said that and he fears that when he goes to sleep he is going to miss out on more play. He hasn't taken naps regularly since he was about 3. Not my choice--still have a mandatory rest hour, but he RARELY sleeps.

DWmom, I have though about letting him 'read' in his bed until he falls asleep but I don't think he's 'organized' enough to allow that to happen. He gets so worked up about what else might be going on in the house without him. Maybe someday . . . however, do appreciate your input about changes taking time & fears & more.
Need to make that bedtime chart--I think it will help. I also love the idea of taking pictures. Silly as it may sound, it may work very well. He honestly doesn't seem to remember that he played, ate his snack, etc. I guarantee if I show him photos of some of the things he did and maybe his empty plate, he will give me a big smile and say, 'oh, I forgot!' What a great idea.