Do professionals think this is true about aspergers?

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scmnz
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02 Dec 2011, 3:41 pm

I was recently reading an article on aspergers in adults, and for the most part it seemed accurate and informative, but two sections of the article really bothered me, and seemed absolutly false. They apply to me in no way, and do not apply to others i know with aspergers. I was wondering what others with aspergers thought of the statements, if they apply to you, if you agree or disagree with them etc. I also wondered if professionals who work with aspergers believe these statments, and idea which honestly frightens me.

The first statement was in a list of diagnostic criteria for aspergers.

Quote:
Additionally: Impairment in at least one of the criteria relating to childhood imagination:
Lack of varied, spontaneous make believe play appropriate to developmental level
Inability to tell, write or generate spontaneous, unscripted or unplagiarized fiction
Either lack of interest in fiction (written, or drama) appropriate to developmental level or interest in fiction is restricted to its possible basis in fact (e.g. science fiction, history, technical aspects of film)


For me personally, the reading and writing of fiction have been some of my longest lasting special interests, and i clearly remeber making stories up in my head and playing "fantasy land" with friends at a young age. I continue to have imaginary universes of my own to this day. Embarisingly i even have an imaginary boyfriend. How is this lack of imagination in any way.

The second statement was discribing lack of empathy, the words they used were difficulty and connecting it to the theory of the mind:

Quote:
sharing and understanding another’s "state of mind" or emotion


Quote:
This is the ability to imagine, on the one hand, that other people have their own ideas, thoughts, and emotions, and on the other hand, the ability to empathize with these. Persons with Asperger’s syndrome have substantial deficits in this respect.


of course i know other people have feelings, and yes, i do care about those feeling, probably more then i should...

Please inform me if i am missing important data in my conclusion that these statments are false. It is not my intent to upset anyone witht this, i simply wanted to know what you thought of these, and i wanted to find out if i was missing something importent.



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02 Dec 2011, 3:45 pm

AFAIK, the basis for making an official AS diagnosis is not an "All or Nothing" proposition - you don't have to have an exact match to each and every recognized symptom. The old legalistic "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" is all that's required.


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02 Dec 2011, 3:49 pm

I completely agree. I love fiction and have loved/read it since I first learned to read, and playing imaginary games with other kids when I was little was like the one surefire way I WAS able to relate/interact with others at a young age.



scmnz
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02 Dec 2011, 3:49 pm

I am sorry, im not good with internet slang... what is the meaning of "AFAIK,"?



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02 Dec 2011, 3:55 pm

scmnz wrote:
I am sorry, im not good with internet slang... what is the meaning of "AFAIK,"?

"As Far As I Know"


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02 Dec 2011, 4:03 pm

For the first one:

That is a common trait and is also not a trait that is required for a diagnosis. Just because you don't have lack of imagination doesn't mean its not common on the spectrum. Personally, I really enjoy reading fiction, but have no idea how to come up with a story on my own. I would put myself as impaired in this category.

For the second one:

Note the word understand. I know others have other feelings. I care a lot about others. I don't necessarily understand how they feel. I don't know how to identify what they're feeling. I don't necessarily share their emotions - someone being upset might come through as guilt to me. It's not that I don't care, I care a lot, but I don't see their emotions and react in the "normal" manner.

I really dislike the description as it makes us sound like we don't care for others, but at least part of the idea behind it makes sense.



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02 Dec 2011, 4:13 pm

Psychological mumbo-jumbo is often written in a way that sounds insulting. It's not just that way when they write about Asperger's. Although I do feel that such a style probably contributes to lack of respect for the people the diagnoses apply to, it does seem to me to be across the board, pretty much. This is one reason for my negative feelings about Western psychology in general.


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02 Dec 2011, 4:16 pm

scmnz wrote:
I was recently reading an article on aspergers in adults, and for the most part it seemed accurate and informative, but two sections of the article really bothered me, and seemed absolutly false. They apply to me in no way, and do not apply to others i know with aspergers. I was wondering what others with aspergers thought of the statements, if they apply to you, if you agree or disagree with them etc. I also wondered if professionals who work with aspergers believe these statments, and idea which honestly frightens me.

The first statement was in a list of diagnostic criteria for aspergers.

Quote:
Additionally: Impairment in at least one of the criteria relating to childhood imagination:
Lack of varied, spontaneous make believe play appropriate to developmental level
Inability to tell, write or generate spontaneous, unscripted or unplagiarized fiction
Either lack of interest in fiction (written, or drama) appropriate to developmental level or interest in fiction is restricted to its possible basis in fact (e.g. science fiction, history, technical aspects of film)


For me personally, the reading and writing of fiction have been some of my longest lasting special interests, and i clearly remeber making stories up in my head and playing "fantasy land" with friends at a young age. I continue to have imaginary universes of my own to this day. Embarisingly i even have an imaginary boyfriend. How is this lack of imagination in any way.

The second statement was discribing lack of empathy, the words they used were difficulty and connecting it to the theory of the mind:

Quote:
sharing and understanding another’s "state of mind" or emotion


Quote:
This is the ability to imagine, on the one hand, that other people have their own ideas, thoughts, and emotions, and on the other hand, the ability to empathize with these. Persons with Asperger’s syndrome have substantial deficits in this respect.


of course i know other people have feelings, and yes, i do care about those feeling, probably more then i should...

Please inform me if i am missing important data in my conclusion that these statments are false. It is not my intent to upset anyone witht this, i simply wanted to know what you thought of these, and i wanted to find out if i was missing something importent.
isnt weird how they say autistics have no imagination,yet the dictionary defines autism as a psychology of day dreams hallucinations and disregard for external reality.kind of a contradiction


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02 Dec 2011, 4:51 pm

I am fed up with the idea that aspies have no imagination. I have seen it written in a newspaper even.



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02 Dec 2011, 4:52 pm

This part doesn't describe me at all and I wonder if it really has any basis, since I see the exact opposite a lot.


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Sparhawke
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02 Dec 2011, 4:53 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
scmnz wrote:
I was recently reading an article on aspergers in adults, and for the most part it seemed accurate and informative, but two sections of the article really bothered me, and seemed absolutly false. They apply to me in no way, and do not apply to others i know with aspergers. I was wondering what others with aspergers thought of the statements, if they apply to you, if you agree or disagree with them etc. I also wondered if professionals who work with aspergers believe these statments, and idea which honestly frightens me.

The first statement was in a list of diagnostic criteria for aspergers.

Quote:
Additionally: Impairment in at least one of the criteria relating to childhood imagination:
Lack of varied, spontaneous make believe play appropriate to developmental level
Inability to tell, write or generate spontaneous, unscripted or unplagiarized fiction
Either lack of interest in fiction (written, or drama) appropriate to developmental level or interest in fiction is restricted to its possible basis in fact (e.g. science fiction, history, technical aspects of film)


For me personally, the reading and writing of fiction have been some of my longest lasting special interests, and i clearly remeber making stories up in my head and playing "fantasy land" with friends at a young age. I continue to have imaginary universes of my own to this day. Embarisingly i even have an imaginary boyfriend. How is this lack of imagination in any way.

The second statement was discribing lack of empathy, the words they used were difficulty and connecting it to the theory of the mind:

Quote:
sharing and understanding another’s "state of mind" or emotion


Quote:
This is the ability to imagine, on the one hand, that other people have their own ideas, thoughts, and emotions, and on the other hand, the ability to empathize with these. Persons with Asperger’s syndrome have substantial deficits in this respect.


of course i know other people have feelings, and yes, i do care about those feeling, probably more then i should...

Please inform me if i am missing important data in my conclusion that these statments are false. It is not my intent to upset anyone witht this, i simply wanted to know what you thought of these, and i wanted to find out if i was missing something importent.
isnt weird how they say autistics have no imagination,yet the dictionary defines autism as a psychology of day dreams hallucinations and disregard for external reality.kind of a contradiction


Most social sciences are based on guesswork coloured by popular theory of the day, much as real science was years ago...this psychologist obviously doesn't have a clue what he is talking about but I wouldn't let that get me down, a lot more don't know what they're talking about either.

100 years ago it wouldn't have been unusual for doctors to wire electrodes to our heads and zap us, now they do the same thing pretty much with drugs.

The world never changes.


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Ganondox
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02 Dec 2011, 5:34 pm

Also, I've heard numerous times that the word imagination is no where on the diagnosis thing. Maybe this is outdated, or it's just plain wrong.


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Agemaki
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02 Dec 2011, 5:55 pm

Quote:
Embarisingly i even have an imaginary boyfriend. How is this lack of imagination in any way.


That's nothing to be embarrassed about. I would have never gotten through junior high without my imaginary love-interests.

Just speaking for myself, I feel like my creativity has always been something that has separated me from other people. I remember I was dictating stories for my parents to write as early as age three. Sometimes the creative urge is so strong that it is almost maddening. I have all these stories in my head screaming at me, begging me to give life to them. When it gets really bad (typically I become more creative when depressed, likely as a means of distracting myself from my woes) I can hardly sleep and I pretty much live in a world in my head, hardly aware of my surroundings. The creative inspiration makes it extemely difficult to concentrate on anything else and when I do give in to it I am entirely swept away, becoming unaware of the passage of time or my physical location. I really love that feeling, sort of a state of ecstasy.

Granted, I haven't been able to afford an official diagnosis so it might be that I don't have asperger's. Hopefully I will know someday.



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02 Dec 2011, 6:16 pm

I do not get this one bit, and I need explanations please.

So one minute Aspies are supposed to lack interest in drama and writing, and there's a whole thread about it saying ''yes, yes, it's common....'' and so forth, also, in other words, NTs are the opposite I suppose - were all interested in writing and drama as children. Then another week you find a thread saying, ''are most children with AS have an interest in writing and drama?'' and then it all goes into detail of how the OP was into it as a child then says ''is this an Aspie thing?'' meaning most NT children lack interest in writing and drama.......

I wrote stories all the time when I was a child. They were mostly about myself and general situations what happen in my life, for example if we planned to go to the seaside as a family, I would write a story about us all going to the seaside. Also I had a big imagination as a child.

I'm confused. Are Aspies supposed to be creative or not? Are NTs supposed to be creative or not?


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02 Dec 2011, 6:39 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I'm confused. Are Aspies supposed to be creative or not? Are NTs supposed to be creative or not?


Perhaps there are two opposite kinds of imagination: escapism and creativity.
I read a lot, I make games and I love comics. but I find most books and plays are unrealistic, verbose and tedious. I don't get what other people get from them. I suppose they might call this lack of imagination, but I call it high standards.

Everyone else I know reads and plays for escapism. They "suspend disbelief" and separate the real and the fantasy. I don't. For me fantasy is a way to play with real ideas, to explore reality in a simplified, focused, representative or symbolic way. The integrity of the ideas matters. I take them very seriously.

It seems to me that NTs can very easily slip into stories that make no sense and then slip out again. I can't. I want fiction that I can question and analyse. Maybe that's what the author meant?



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02 Dec 2011, 6:45 pm

Quote:
Additionally: Impairment in at least one of the criteria relating to childhood imagination:
Lack of varied, spontaneous make believe play appropriate to developmental level
Inability to tell, write or generate spontaneous, unscripted or unplagiarized fiction
Either lack of interest in fiction (written, or drama) appropriate to developmental level or interest in fiction is restricted to its possible basis in fact (e.g. science fiction, history, technical aspects of film)

This is such a stereotype that it's hard to know where to begin.

First off, a lot of kids just flat out do not like reading, fiction or any other type of reading.

And then, a lot of fiction inflicted on kids is just plain bad fiction.

I tend to like history, autobiography, that type of thing, and I think many people not on the spectrum also tend to like history, autubiography, that type of thing.

And then the part "spontaneous, unscripted or unplagiarized fiction" Oh, wow, that's just rich. I think it was in his book On Writing that Stephen King talks about writing the script to a werewolf movie which he had seen.