Autistic child removed from home due to mothers religion

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I wasn't sure where to put this. It's not in the news yet, as it happened to a lady I know and she's unsure if she wants to go to the media or not, so I won't put it in the news forum. I thought of several other of the subforums to put it in, but finally decided that the parents forum would be best.

This is what happened.

A very nice lady I know who lives in Cullman County has two young kids. One is autistic. I don't know the extent of how the child's autism effects him. She's nice, she is a good mother, she keeps her home fairly well cleaned and maintained, she doesn't do drugs and only drinks on social occasions and even then she doesn't drink much. She is Wiccan and when her children ask questions regarding religion she answers them with her beliefs, as all parents do. She isn't against Christianity, and in fact many of her friends (I'm Catholic) are Christian, she simply believes differently. I totally understand that, as I have friends of different religions as well. We all do I believe.

She had a problem and had to have her landlord come out to fix it. Her landlord saw her altar. There was nothing dangerous on it, but he asked about it, told her off, and then called DHR on her (that's Child Protective Services down here) because of it. The workers came out and they removed the children that day, and put them in foster care. I'm assuming that the home they were placed in is familiar with special needs, and both children were placed together. She had a pile of dirty laundry in the livingroom that she had moved so the landlord could get to what she needed him to fix and hadn't moved it back yet. It was a fairly large pile, but she couldn't wash because of what was broken. Something in the laundry area, I think either the washer connection or the plug. Her house was clean otherwise.

On the forms that she got from them it stated that she had to have an immediate psychiatric evaluation (which she had and passed) because she "thinks she's a witch and believes she practices witchcraft". She doesn't think it's like Harry Potter, it's just her religion and what some of them call it. The other day they decided that they will keep the children for four months in foster care while she undergoes court ordered therapy due to her "delusions". They will not giver her children back to her yet, and yes the laundry has been done and put away.

I'm aware that most times there is more to the story than what you hear from one side, but I do truly believe this lady, especially from what I know of her, and of the area she lives in. (Thats the area of Alabama that had the KKK sign permenantly by the side of the road when entering that country warning black people not to stay there, and was there until about 15 years ago - I remember seeing it when I was younger)

She cannot get any information from the foster parents about how her autistic child is doing with this, and at her supervised visitation the child did nothing but cling to her and melt down and had to be pulled away by the worker when the visit was over. I'm wondering how much this could set that baby back developmentally. I can't imagine it's very good to be snatched out of a good home and put with strangers, especially for an autistic child.

The foster parents are also teaching the children about Christianity and they told the mother this, even though it's against her wishes for them to, because at their ages being taught different things about religions may confuse them.

My question is this. How much damage could that do to her autistic child? She has a lawyer, but they aren't getting anywhere, and this happened a couple of weeks ago. Has anyone else been in a situation like this or know of one? If so, do you know of any other recourse that the mother might have? Especially to make sure that her autistic child doesn't regress because of this. I'm sure that both kids will need intense therapy afterwards.

I'm all for removing children from abusive or neglectful homes, or the homes of parents who are drug or alcohol abusers to the extent that it may effect their ability to parent. This is not one of those situations.

If she goes to the media, I'll be sure and put the link here and also post it in the news subforum, but meanwhile, if anyone knows anything that the mother can or should be doing to prevent any kind of regression, please let me know and I will give her the information.

Thanks,

The child shouldn't have been removed from the home.

I kind of understand the situation because my mother had to keep my father from taking me and my brother when we were little (5 & 2). I'd say this could severely affect the child developmentally, and the mother needs to talk w/ a lawyer so they can prove that the separation will/is do/ing more harm than good overall. Also, I suspect most children would have severe emotional damage from that kind of separation. I don't know the laws in Alabama (my issues occurred in PA/NJ), but if the state will not give her children back she should try to arrange for out-of-state relatives to take the children temporarily as a worst-case-scenario (if this is possible). This also proves that the gov. definitely does not have a clue what the Wiccan religion is about.

Last edited by Peko on 14 Jan 2012, 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Oh my! How awful for all of them.

I'm a Christian, a church minister, and I think this is completely out of order.

I suspect that regression will inevitably follow for this. When I completed my training at the beginning of this year, I spoke to my son's teacher about the possibility of his having to move school and was told that no matter how well it was managed there would be some degree of regression because of the transition. My son is diagnosed with Asperger's.

The children's usual routines should be adhered to as much as possible, and for the autistic child that will include sensory routines too, eg, using the same detergent or whatever for laundering his clothes, being able to wear his own clothes, use his own bedlinen, eat his usual foods and brands of those foods. Goodness, for an autistic child even having a different cup can be traumatic never mind being taken from his home and separated from his mother like this.

I would say that to start teaching Christianity to a child being raised by a Wiccan is a breach of both the child's and the parent's human rights, btw. She should get her lawyer to check that out too.

Ugh, I thought in the West at least witch hunts were a thing of the past!

Can I (figuratively) strangle the landlord and CPS down there? How much damage? A TON. That removal alone will have done TWENTY TIMES the damage any of her odd beliefs ever could have (assuming they actually could be damaging, which I do not really believe), but I guess those bozos figured saving the children's souls was worth any cost on sanity to them while living on this earth?

That women needs to MOVE away from such ignorance.

This is NO CAUSE to remove an autistic child, who needs CONSISTENCY more than ANYTHING ELSE.

They've shown ignorance of alternate beliefs, and complete ignorance about autism.

You assume the foster family knows something about special needs? Odds aren't all that good on that.

I'm Catholic, too, and I think this situation is all messed up.

Your friend should contact one of the autism advocacy networks. NOT the media; I think her local media will be just as uniformed as the landlord, CPS and foster parents.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 14 Jan 2012, 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Seconded. That kind of discrimination sounds seriously illegal. But if she's in Alabama she needs to appeal to NON-local media. People are all kinds of backwards down there and it's likely that local authorities/news media will be biased against her. (As I'm sure you are aware.)

She needs to contact and ask for assistance from the ACLU, American Civil Liberties Union, aclu.com

that is what they are for- among other rights, protecting a parent's religious freedom and right to parent regardless of difference in religion.

Not all of Alabama is like Cullman, or the town I live in. Bigger cities like Birmingham (where I'm originally from and lived until about 11 years ago), Montgomery, and Huntsville, have diverse communities and even though you run into many bigots and ignorant people, it's more of a tolerant atmosphere. I had suggested she contact the media in Birmingham and Huntsville. Cullman is halfway between the two, and they get tv from both areas there. Birmingham also has a big pagan community who would certainly rally around her.

Of course when you get out of the city, you run into ignorance. I'm Catholic and most people in my small town believe that's almost pagan and part of the "Whore of Babylon" and that the Pope will be the Antichrist. I don't worry about what they think.

She's got a lawyer, but it's taking so long to get anything done. She said she doesn't know what they want her to do in therapy, because they mandated it because of her "delusion that she's a witch". Goodness sakes! "Witch" is what some Wiccans call themselves although some do say Wiccan instead. She doesn't think she can wave a wand or twitch her nose and make something happen. Even if she did think that, unless she was attempting to feed and care for her kids by simply waving a wand, I don't see how that could hurt anything.

Funny thing is, over half the households in Cullman with children under 12 in them have loaded guns in the home that aren't locked up. Kids are just taught not to touch them, and they don't touch them. It's rare for anything to happen because of that in areas where there are lots of gun culture people. But, if DHR knows that a 5yo is running around in a house where there is a loaded .44 on the night stand in the parents bedroom and do nothing about it, I don't see how in the world they justify taking a child over different beliefs and a pile of laundry that wasn't washed because of the very issue she was having fixed by the landlord. Parents can spank their kids with a belt as much as they want there and it's ok (I think it's ok for certain things, in a certain way and on certain kids, depending) but God forbid the mother teaches them a different religion. I think they need to recalibrate their priorities up there. Seriously.

I'll ask her if her lawyer can talk to DHR and see if there is consistancy. I don't know if she's done that yet or not. She may very well have and just not mentioned it to me. I'll also mention to her about the idea of out of state relatives.

This kind of thing is what gives people the wrong idea about all of us in Alabama. The cities are not like that at all.

that is just incredibly sad.

You do need to check on if consistency is being maintained, for both of the kids, but especially for your kid with Asperger's. I am an over 50 Aspy, and I still don't tolerate change well. I especially don't like sudden changes in schedule.

As for resolving this problem, you need to get some big guns involved. I don't like the ACLU myself, but I think you will need them in your case. Once you have the kids back, you should really consider moving near to relatives, in another state. Now that the local child protective services have you in their records, they will want to keep checking on you. If you stay in that state after getting the kids back, they will do everything in their power to take them away again, and if possible, terminate your parental rights, and either keep the kids in the foster care system, or put them up for adoption. Because of your one kid's Asperger's, he would most likely be hard to adopt, which would mean him being in foster care or a facility for people with mental problems, until he becomes an adult, by which time, he would be pretty mental and would probably be stuck in a mental facility as an adult.--Get help NOW!

Remember, we on the spectrum are all:

A Different Drummer

If a man does not keep pace with his companions,
Perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer.
Let him step to the music which he hears,
However measured or far away.

--Henry David Thoreau

It's not me, it's a friend of mine who lives quite a ways north of me, but in the same state. I also think her child is ASD, rather than AS, but I don't know how high or low functioning.

But I agree, if I were her I'd move out of there as soon as I got the kids back.

Having thought about it more, and read the other replies, I'm of the opinion that this is entirely a human rights issue. They have removed her children because of her religious beliefs, thus denying her right to practice the religion of her choosing and denying her, and her children's right to a private and family life.

I also agree very much than when her children are returned, and I very much hope they are returned very soon, she should get away from there as soon as possible. As someone has said, they will continue to check on her and pester her and will look for any pretext to take the children again.

Cullman isn't very well known for respecting human rights. Up until about 15-20 years ago there was a large hand painted sign going into the county on an often used county four lane that said "N-word don't let the sun set on you in Cullman". It's got more Klan members than any county in the state, and many of them are open about being in it. So, it really doesn't surprise me that they are being like that to her over her religion. I'm pretty surprised that they tolerate St Aloysius, the boys boarding/day school thats there (Catholic) and the grotto and Sacred Heart which is the girls boarding/day school. Lots down here don't like us Catholics. I suppose they like Wiccans even less.

I hope she gets this straightened out soon for sure as well. I'll post and let everybody know when I find out anything.

Yes, please keep us updated, and I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say to pass on our heartfelt good wishes, and prayers if we pray.

I think it is two-fold: the right's question, which she will eventually win but which could take YEARS, AND the autism question, "what is best for the child," and on that she doesn't HAVE years.

CPS needs to understand that you need double cause before even considering removing an autistic child.

Removing my son from me at that age would have permanently damaged him. There were so few people he felt safe with and trusted. I really think he would have flipped out and gone deep into a shell. And that is a super high functioning kid.

I'd like to see both angles played: one to further understanding of the needs of AS kids.

I also think that when the rights issues get raised, there is a good chance this group will dig in and will attack the mother's character, look for everything they can think of. People who fervently believe they are saving souls tend to be like that. They are less likely to dig in like that if they come to understand that they are actually damaging one of the children with their actions.

This is horrendous. Maybe she doesn't want publicity, but I honestly think she should contact someone like Elizabeth Vargas at ABC's 20/20. I think she might have a penchant for such a story as this. Why media? Publicity just might help the mom pay for any legal proceedings (pro bono lawyer jumps at the chance), help her get her children back faster, and send out a warning to any inclined to act so ridiculously in the future.