What I hate the most.

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I have a terrible problem. I get friendzoned constantly. It doesn't seem to matter what girl I'm talking to. It seems to be, as soon as they realize I have a valid thought in my head.. or gasp.. respect them as human beings.. I'm no longer suitable material for a physical relationship. Meanwhile if I ever dare bring it up, it's always the same thing, Oh theres a girl out there for you.. if I wasn't dating *Blank* I'd totally go out with you..

I'm sick of this.

I am sick and tired of this happening.

Yet I seem to have no capability to prevent it from happening. It's even happened with girls I've only known online, who I met through dating sites.

It's like some big cosmic joke. I go through all this trouble to find a girl who is interesting and interested in some of the same things I am.. precisely so we can be friends.. But then they never want to be anything more than just friends.

It's just frustratingly teeth grindingly hair pullingly maddeningly anger inducing that I find myself nearly apoplectic every time it happens. Yet I can't be some one I'm not. I can't hide who I am. If I'm asked a question I can't help but answer it. it's like a compulsion, an itch behind my eyes if I don't.

In short. it really pisses me off.

Respectfully, there is a gap in your idea that you're making friends with women.

This is not exactly friendly or friendship. Are you so good at disguising your anger about your relationships with these woman that they don't see and feel the percussion of your anger? Women can feel when you will be angry with them if they don't get cozy with you and that in itself is a repellant to getting comfortable you.

Think of it this way; once a woman feels that if she doesn't become your girlfriend; you're going to get in rage; she is going to say whatever she can to diffuse you and make you understand that she's just not going there. Manipulating women by the use of your anger (intentional or not) will defeat each potential relationship.

I understand that you feel that you're in a perpetual catch 22. But that's not necessarily true. If you can lose the anger you will stand a better chance with women.

Work on the anger first. It can be done, but only if you really want to be rid of it. Anger management programs are available.

Most of the time though it is a catch 22. Lots of women will claim they want to be friends with someone first before dating them, but it's unless its someone they liked as more then a friend to start with, they'll always turn down the friend who likes them claiming the friendship wasn't real in the first place. Then just to rub salt into the wounds they'll then start dating someone they hardly know. It doesn't work both ways, if you don't want to be friends with somebody before dating them, don't preach that in the first place.

It's too easy to say the guy shouldn't be friends with a girl if he knows he wants more (and if that's the case straight away then to some extent thats true, but people developing crushes over time is not an abnormal occurrence) but if she's prepared to break off the friendship without hesitation as soon as she finds out the guy likes her, then doesn't that say more about her? It shows that she never really thought of him as a friend to start with. (or vice versa if everything is other way around)

I'm not saying these women are liars, but they'll happily keep moving the goalposts when it suits them. That's where the frustration and the anger for guys like the OP comes from.

The only advice I can give to the OP is stay clear of the women who claim to want to be 'friends first' (for me it's a red flag as it indicates that they don't know what they want) before forming a relationship with someone. Because truth be told, the majority of them are hypocrites, for the reasons that I have stated above.

Last edited by Daemonic-Jackal on 23 Jan 2012, 7:31 am, edited 4 times in total.

Most individuals will usually be rejected a number of times when approaching others for romantic relationships. However some individuals are more likely to end up in friend zones than others. These are...

1. Individuals who wish to be close to the person through any means, and thus will linger on the premise of being a friend, after romantic rejection.

2. Individuals who don't declare their romantic intentions soon enough (usually because they don't see the window of opportunity or fear rejection too much).

3. Individuals who act like friends. This is the person who is willing to listen too much.

4. Individuals who's only criteria to determine if another person would be suitable relationship material is 1. The person is nice to them, and 2. They have a lot in common. The person fails to realize the complexity of romantic attraction.

There is an underlying personality trait that tends to be common to all of these, and that is, "nice" ,desperate, and submissive individuals who don't know if, and when they should make a move, or how to appropriately declare their intentions.

Let's now talk about men specifically. Most men, when they determine they are romantically interested in a woman and decide to pursue that type of relationship, will not stick around if they are rejected because they don't want to be her friend. They want to be her boyfriend. If they are rejected, they move on and try to find another woman they like enough to pursue as a girlfriend.

When do these men declare their intentions? The answer is, it varies. Some will declare them from the start but it's my observation that such methods do not form lasting relationships if the woman is receptive to such pick up methods because the probability of incompatibilities is too high, and the probability that both individuals are impulsive is also too high.

Most men, it seems, will have a number of interactions with the woman, during which they get to know each other a little better, before they decide to ask her out, and the first few dates are usually a continuation of the familiarization process.

I won't lie to you, a lot of non-verbal communication goes on before and during this processes, and this is primarily how she determines he is interested in her, and he determines whether or not to ask her out. It's also the primary method how she determines whether or not she will say yes.

But what if he misjudges and she says no? Most men are going to be hurt by this, as anyone would be, but here is the important thing to keep in mind. Most of them are not afraid of rejection to the point that they play passive and don't make their personality and boundaries known to the other person because lying about who you are and what you expect and will tolerate in a relationship is the basis of an unsustainable relationship. So they do not make themselves door mats and put her in the position of accidentally walking all over them.

They harbor the concept that they might not be her type, but she might not be their type, and they might see fit to reject her if she does not meet their standards.

I know how you feel because I always end up in the just friends category as well & one of 3 things happens when I do

1~ This happened with women I knew offline from work. They'll get mad because they thought I was gay &/or they were lesbians who were obvious to most others. They went out of their way to make my job more difficult by giving me attitude or causing spills that I had to clean(I did custodial & cleaning type jobs) till they quit. I feel like I must be retorted for being so oblivious & awkward.

2~ This happens online & offline. We remain friends for a while until I make a comment about being lonely, liking someone else or trying to find someone & then they suddenly get mad at me because what they meant by just being friends or not liking me in that way was that we be friends 1st & keep the option for a relationship open or they are jealous because think I'm no longer interested in them. I feel like a freaking dumb-ass for screwing up a chance without even realizing that I had one.

3~ This happens online & offline. We remain friends & they keep coming to me for emotional support about being lonely or about how guys they do date don't treat them well. I feel bad because I do like those girls & I know I would treat them rite. I also feel horrible about myself because there must be something seriously wrong with me where women who complain about being lonely would rather be alone than with me & because I'm more of a loser than guys who use women.

the women did not like you and said about being friends so as to reject you politely.

I dont think that is because you respect them or are nice but because of some unattractive thing you do which you dont realize.

For example the men Ive met who experience a lot of this have been- passive aggressive, or spiteful, or critical, or poor hygiene, or whiny, or needy, or dependent, or a combo of all of these, they were not aware of how they were and because women were too polite to call someone spiteful or rude the chap was under the false impression that he was too nice.

women are not going to put themselves in a position of facing aggression, so will be polite when rejecting someone and say they want to be friends.

if you want that to stop, look deeply at yourself and explore your potentially off putting faults.

Last edited by The-Raven on 23 Jan 2012, 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

That's NOT it in my case. My hygiene isn't too bad & I get called sweet a lot by women I'm friends with & some occasionally complement my looks. They reject me when I do make a move thou

it is the case.
from reading your posts over the years I would say your problem is not being too sweet or nice, you need to take a long hard look at yourself and how you come across.
They reject you when you make a move as what someone can tolerate in a friend is different from what they can tolerate in a partner.

I understand where you're coming from, it's easy to be friend zoned.

But it isn't because you're nice or respectful. Like someone else said, the person simply isn't attracted to you.

It's rare for people to "grow" attracted to people. It does happen, but it's rare.

Guys are better off making their intentions clear from the beginning.

With rare exceptions, people (not just girls!) decide whether a person they meet is a potential love interest quite quickly, and find it difficult to change their minds. It's best to make your intentions known as soon as possible.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, it really isn't necessarily that people don't find you attractive. The thing is, maybe someone meets you for the first time, and they find you attractive. But if you send them the wrong verbal / body language messages, they will mentally file you into the "friend" category simply because you are not signalling correctly. After that, it may be difficult for them to find you attractive again.

In other words, I think that a certain pair of people might either become friends or lovers, not based on the people themselves, but based on the signalling in their first encounter. It's very important to get it right.

its not a big problem dear just relax your mind think you will do right or wrong.

The friendzsone is a major issue for girls too. For three years anyone who I've been attracted to is either psychologically unstable or not attracted to me. I keep getting told I'm a great gal and very pretty, but then they tell me they just don't see me that way. I understand that I have a slightly more masculine brain than my NT female friends (which is why I can sit and have conversations about anything from gaming and bacon to porn) so most of my friends are guys. None of them have ever asked me to move it up to the next level.
I HAVE to be friends with the guy first before I can let them near me, due to childhood trust issues. I know how they affect me and I try to not let them become an issue. However, even if I start off with a romantic interest as I get to know that person (and for a girl it's harder to express that without being called a 'slapper', since there's a fine line to tred between flirting and sluttiness) the actual 'boyfriend material' guys are never interested. The guys who are attracted to me are generally very needy, constantly texting and saying inappropriate things. I try to be open about my past without freaking people out, so when they are doing this I want to scream 'Back off, I don't know you well enough yet'. If you think I'm over-reating, you should see some of the lewd comments posted on my facebook wall. Generally inexperienced young males and even 40 somethings are the ones who are interested in me. Nothing wrong with inexperience, but neediness is a definite scare factor for any woman.
So, in conclusion, pervs like me, but I'm only friend material to decent ones.

I guess it could be the lack of attraction thing. Attraction is something that I do NOT get. I like women based on their personalities;I become interested if they are nice towards me after a while. I also believe that my partner should be my best friend so having a friendship is important; we don't have to be close friends at 1st but I'd have to think there's a possibility that we could be. Apparently most women are quite different from me with this stuff & I lack the theory of mind to be capable of understanding how it works for them

If people dont want to date me because I am peculiar and annoying (or any other fault) I would be fooling myself to blame 'the friendzone'
it would serve my interests better to take responsibility for my failings and work toward ameliorating them.

I find the idea of the supposed "friend zone" completely ridiculous. I'd rather get to really know and trust someone as a friend before going further into any sort of deeper relationship. Going on impulse alone only goes to show how truly stupid and shallow some people can be. To think that you could get to know somebody so well in just a couple dates, and to cast off others into some friend zone, is something I'll never be able to understand.

I agree with some of the posters above who are telling you that there's an anger loop here that's most likely exacerbating the problem. You do fully realise at all levels that no one owes it to you to either be friends with you or in a relationship simply because you think you are being 'nice', right?

For a relationship to happen, it helps to have shared interests but you also need chemistry in a big way, if this is absent then it will be a friendship.

Do you know how to recognise whether chemistry is there or not before asking the girl out?

What you said about finding girls to be friends and then being disappointed when they don't want to date - these are 2 different categories and you will need to present yourself as potentially interested from the point that you know you are interested (meaning that there is a difference between a guy who is a long term friend of someone he suddenly realises he likes and asks them out, and a guy who only gets close to someone in the guise of friendship in order to ask them out later). So if you know you like someone, get to know them but also signal your interest (if you don't know how to do this then watch other people and films to spot the signals, practise in front of a mirror if necessary.) You can also start off like this and not end up asking the girl out if you decide later on that you don't want to, but if think you will want to from the start then make sure she gets some 'warning' via this signalling so she knows your intentions and can think about whether she likes you or not.