Am I in denial?

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I posted earlier about feeling that I should have been diagnosed at some point with AS, even though I've been to 9 doctors about it. Part of the problem may be that there's no one from my childhood left to tell what I was **really** like then

I'm starting to think I have AS again and getting into siging up for social skills classes, etc again. I was in these before and they scared me. Instead of being told, as I heard in social anxiety therapy, not to worry so much about what others thought of me, I was hearing that Aspies should always think about how they appear to others, and basically, though no one said it, social anxiety was the best state of mind for any Aspie.

I recently emailed someone in my area about resources for adult Aspies and mentioned my work problems, and about having gone to a get-together for a coworker who was leaving and I was afraid I'd done things wrong. She told me Aspies should never try to get involved in social things at work, as it might cause problems that may ultimately get us fired. When I was in social anxieyt group therapy, the message was "Why don't you ask someone to go to lunch? If there's a gathering after work, go if you want to, even if you're a little scared! Or a lot scared!"

I'm not sure which I should go with, as when I get really worried I start thinkiing I have no social skills at all, but after thinking aobut it I realize I'm probably not as bad as I think. I went back and read what I'd wrote to that woman about the work gathering, and realized that I was so upset at the time that I made it sound as if I'd "done something wrong" on the gathering, when actually I was just saying that I'd probably done wrong to go at all.

Also I found that I analyzed an afternoon on the phones at work, and I probably didn't do as badly as I thought I had, and htat my problems were caused more by worry and anxiety rather than not knowing what to do (worrying that I would do the wrong thing as opposed to actually doing the wrong thing.)

Could this be possible...maybe I'm learning having been on the phones for so long, or am I in denial about my abilities?

And is it OK to try to get rid of my social anxiety or is it better to keep it?

How about confused? I offered you help once before. I’m still here.

Thanks, but does the answer always have to be that I'm AS? What if all those doctors were right about me and I'm not?

I may be wrong because I don't know you, but if you go to 9 doctors with the thought in the back of your head that you have AS and they all tell you that you don't have it...well then you don't have it.

You should be trying to socialize with others if that's what you want. Don't listen to somebody who tells you otherwise. Just because you think you're a bad conversationalist doesn't mean you have AS. It means you're in the wrong state of mind when approaching social situations.

I suspected I autistic for over 30 years and was kind of in denial about for all that time just for its association to the "ret*d" lable. But now I have come to terms with it since my mother confirmed my suspicions that I was diagnosed as autistic when I was 8 I am happy because back then I was barely speaking with frequent tantrums because I could not express myself clearly in words.

I would think your sheer "perseverance" in going to SEE 9 DR would say something about your being an aspie?I finally got an official DX from someone who claims to be an expert and I still dont know if I fully believe it.I also had a problem with no full memories of my childhood and was adopted at 5,so there are a lot of history gaps.My adopted parents are not the best source of information because they are a little "crazy".I can understand your really wanting an answer to this so you know how to respond to your "difficulties"...from an NT or AS perspective.This seems like a legitimate question.I have tried years of traditional therapy and found it didnt work for me.I dont want to become a social person,I want to be excepted as I am and except myself for what I am.It seems like a lot of aspies feel otherwise.They want to have a social network,are lonely and want to learn better social skills.You have to decide(regardless of a DX),which kind of person "fits" you best.

I personally would never want to socialize with my work peers.I have nothing in common with them.Even if I did,I could see how it could cause problems for me because I lead an unconventional life.I dont want to be "judged" on preferring bunnies and cats to kids,or the religious art I collect.I want to be judged for my work performance and not my eccentricities...which seems impossible for most NTs to not do.

Of course not. The question is, how would that change anything? Would you be a different person? Would you do anything differently than you do now?

Regardless of the accuracy of the diagnosis, you are expressing a definite issue with social anxiety-not knowing and worrying over how you fare in social situations. I would concentrate on that.
I disagree that AS (or anyone with anxiety issues) people should refrain from socializing with coworkers. Some outside socializing is required (not legally but strongly inferred). Like the Christmas dinner or work lunches, etc. Showing up is more about showing that
you value your boss and are a team player. In some cases, it shows that you like your work "family". Some NTs use this for showing off, but you don't have to join that game. just be there and smile a couple of times.
The classes dont' sound like a healthy choice. Sounds like Applied Behavior Therapy to me. Where you are displaying skills that aren't comfortable. I would try reading a book about social skills and joining a class/club that interests you. Meeting people that you already have something in common with may help with the anxiety.

krex has an absolutely legitimate point. The important thing is to accept yourself and (hopefully) to be accepted by others for who you are. I will disagree with him just a little bit and say that it’s not whether you deal with life’s difficulties from an NT or an AS perspective, but whether you deal with them at all. You’re dealing with them, and it sounds like krex is too.

I don't know anything about your actual social skills; but at the very least, you have social anxiety trouble.

Here's what I think:

If you're not an Aspie, then getting rid of your anxiety will solve your problems.

If you're an Aspie, then getting rid of your anxiety will make you a happier, more confident Aspie... which, even with poor social skills, should make you look at least a little better to others.

NTs can smell fear, just like dogs can. If you're lucky, and you get rid of that anxiety, you'll be known as a quirky, eccentric sort of person. If you're unlucky, it can't get any worse than it is now; and you can simply avoid whoever is treating you badly or snubbing you (because they're really not worth it anyway). And, anyway, you're probably pretty smart, which means you can learn social skills by rote if you need to. Just put the brain to work--use your strengths instead of trying to grasp that nebulous "mind-reading" thing NTs seem to do.

I've experienced attacks from other people, and I've suffered my own attacks on myself through bad self-esteem and depression... I would rather be attacked by other people any day. Bruises heal; and words can be ignored; but bad self-esteem will stay forever. You can't escape or ignore yourself.

Accept yourself for who you are and treat others with respect. Speak the truth and be yourself; try to understand them, to communicate as best you can. Tell them you're bad at social stuff if you think it'll help. But it's impossible for you to do better than your best, counting in the motivation and energy you have available; so it's really quite counter-productive to worry about how you'll do; and if you failed, it would be very silly for anyone to blame you for not doing what's better than your best.

If others accept you, great. If they don't accept you despite your efforts, they're either superficial, prejudiced, just plain jerks, or refusing to make the extra effort to communicate with someone whose social skills aren't perfect. And if that's so, their opinions shouldn't matter to you, because you wouldn't have fun hanging out with them anyway.

While I agree with you on your other points, I disagree with you here. It's OCD that causes this, the same as someone who keeps thinking they have cancer or another illness and keep going to doctors and being tested, etc. only to be told they don't have it. They're reassured a little while, then something comes up and they start thinking it again. It's similar to someone who keeps thinking they left something on in their house, and have to check a bunch of times before leaving the house. (My last therapist explained this to me.)

This is different from an Aspie "special interest" in something enjoyable to the Aspie with the interest, even if NT's think it's weird. None of this is enjoyable to me. If I were in an Aspie forum talking about other things it'd be enjoyable, but this worrying about whether or not I have AS isn't fun at all.

I'm not saying that I or anyone couldn't be both Aspie and OCD, but it is possible to have OCD and not AS.

In Jungian terms, the emphasis on social interaction is characteristically a trait of extraverts. They seek out the stimulation of others, and interact frequently and skillfully with them. If your preference is for extraversion, that's great. But if you're an introvert, you get criticized basically for not being more extraverted.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot.

Introverts are focused. They manage to screen out the miscellaneous distractions around them. They sustain intense concentration for long periods of time. They are comfortable with themselves. They know how to keep their mouths shut, and when they do say something, it's usually worth hearing.

Extraverts, on the other hand, have difficulty staying focused. Their interests are shallow and superficial. They are social gadflies, flitting here and there, but accomplishing little. Extraverts are uncomfortable in their own company. The extravert's tendency to interact can and often does make them a danger to themselves and others, i.e. when they're driving a car and talking on the cell phone at the same time.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. It's possible to take *anybody's* behavior and see it positively or negatively. In the Western world the characteristics of extraverts are seen as positive and the characteristics of introverts are seen as negative. That's the social bias. But in Asian countries the bias is reversed. Introversion is OK and extraversion is not. Go figure.

The qualities of extraversion are commendable -- for extraverts -- but introversion has its own rewards. Beware of buying into the social bias.

I think Callista's got it right: "I am who I am. Deal with it."

I think it's always better to get rid of social anxiety. I say this even as I am pretty sure a degree of social anxiety has kept me from really sticking my foot in my mouth on like on a daily basis. I tend to blurt things out and stuff like that. I know my behavior is odd so anxiety makes me focus on trying to at least look normal. Still I would rather not have it. I am much happier when I am just myself even if other people don't like it.

Wow that sucks that your being told conflicting information. I think you should work on social anxiety first. It can certainly be done but you must take things very slow. It may be you have social anxiety instead of aspergers but if you conquer your social fear first it will be easier to tell if it is that alone or an ASD .

Also that aspieshe shouldn't get involved in anything social is BS.

Wow, one hell of a necrobump. This thread is 9 years old.