Law Enforcement

Post Reply New Topic

I have been asked to develop some training for local police/EMS/Fire about autism.

I feel pretty comfortable talking about the signs and behaviors and such as my son has autism and I have been speaking about that a bit already.

From reading so much on this forum and talking to my son and knowing how he can feel and behave in certain overstimulating situations, I'm wondering:

1. How do you feel about law enforcement in general? Do they scare you, make you feel threatened or make you feel safe or does it just depend upon the situation?

2. If you were injured or trapped in a fire and were "melting down" (for lack of a better term), how would you want emergency workers to help you?

3. If you were melting down, would you be able to follow instructions about either receiving medical care or leaving a burning building?

4. If you were "shutdown", would you be able to hear and respond to instructions?

5. If you were overstimulated, how would you feel about being touched to be treated or to be carried out?

6. What could emergency workers do to help them understand if you were injured or in pain?

7.. If for some reason the police were attempting to deal with you, maybe because someone reported you "missing" or maybe you were having some sort of meltdown in a crowded place, how would you want them to approach you?

I've read a lot that meltdowns can often be violent and I know my son often gets aggressive when overstimulated or when he feels that he is being laughed at or picked on. I know it's often best to leave him alone to chill out when this happens.

8. So what should law enforcement do if someone is violent? I know restraint is popular with NT's but not with the ASD community.
Would picture cards help?
Would clearing the area and just letting the person melt down be best?

I feel like this training is really important but I don't want to speak for the ASD community based upon my NT assumptions or my dealings with just my son. Any advice would be really helpful. Thanks so much.

1. I automatically get really nervous and may stutter when talking to them.
2. If I was trapped in a fire I don't think I'd care at all how they helped me as long as they got me out.
3. I haven't had a meltdown since high school (close to 10 years) so I can't say for sure.
4. Maybe. When I get super stressed and shutdown my mind is usually racing with all sorts of thoughts and that can distract me from anything external.
5. If I had something wrong and needed to be treated I'm sure I'd be okay, but if a cop wanted to assert his authority and power by grabbing my arm or something I might flip out.
6. Just be calm and explain what's going on and ask questions in a calm, friendly manner and have patience.
7. Refer to #6
8. I think the best bet would be to clear the area and then refer to #6.

I appreciate that you are interested in doing this! I have had many issues with trying to communicate with local law enforcement regarding autism, and every time an Autistic citizen gets killed by unaware police officer who gets scared for his/her life by autism behavior, the issue comes up, then it kind of fades out. There just hasn't been enough official education for police about us.

My answers in order:

1) I immediately assume I'm going to be questioned for drug use, etc. (although I've never used drugs or been in any kind of trouble in 45 years), and that probably comes across as a guilty demeanor, which snowballs into a 30-minute interrogation. Once in awhile, particularly with older-aged officers, it's a friendly and quick stop, and I'd welcome that anytime.

2) Get out of my way and point to the exit. I've been in a house fire, and in burning cars, and I have no problem handling an escape if I don't have to worry about fending off unwelcome "help". I don't panic in a way as to get myself stuck, or to do anything dumb. To grab me might get the firefighter AND me hurt!

3) Same as #2 answer, only being high-functioning, I don't generally have full meltdowns.

4) No. If I'm shut down, I'm not going to hear or see anyone, and if they make their presence aware by touching me, they'll likely be on the floor very fast, and that's not what I want to do!

5) Same as #2 again.

6) Ask me if I WANT help, and offer it... Never impose it! I'll seek it when I need. When I was in the fire, and had some minor burns and smoke inhalation, and some bloody superficial injuries, I refused any and all treatment at the scene, and I simply went in the back room of a nearby store, and cleaned myself up with the help of a neighbor. It would be different if I had a life-threatening injury, but honestly it might be better for the EMS, the police, and myself, if they'd wait 'til I passed out before forcing anything on me.

7) Tell me the whole truth; Why are they interested in talking with me, and ask me what they need to ask, and I'll be more than happy to cooperate. I don't ever want to cause anyone to worry about me, or to cause extra work for the police. No need to chase or restrain... I'm 100% reasonable and will discuss anything intelligently with them. Any restraint or space invasion will end that though!

8 ) This one I can't honestly say... Personally I'd recommend leaving me alone and getting anyone out of the way, but then again, I'm not the type to let anyone get hurt. Any injuries would be the result of my trying to free myself from an invasion of space, and at my size and strength, that could be very serious. Especially with the adrenaline and disconnect from pain, which accompanies meltdowns. The picture card idea is not necessary as far as I can think, as if the person is that deep in a meltdown of some sort, visual and vocal communications will both be out. Just wait it out....

Charles

I think it's probably important to, but yeah the responses to this will probably vary, so it might be able to come up with any general guidelines but good luck with it.

These responses are really great and really helpful. No 2 people are alike so different responses are fine! Actually, they help a lot because helping first responders understand these differences is really important.

Do lights/sirens bother you? If you were approached by law enforcement, would it make it easier for you if they turned off the lights and sirens?

Also, often officers travel in groups. Would it be easier if just one approached you rather than 2 or more?

And finally, when they are asking you questions, should they try making eye contact with you or does that just make it worse?

Again...thank you so much for everything. My son and I had the coolest discussion last night a.0bout eye contact after I read one of the threads about that. He told me that he likes looking in the eyes of people "he is in love with" and he likes mine because they are pretty but he doesn't like looking in anyone else's eyes because it makes his chest feel funny. So amazing. He is my hero!

make sure to let them know the sirens and flashing police lights can be a problem when ever im in a car and i see a police car in the distance with flashing lights i have to close my eyes. (one reason why i think ill never be able to drive)

I'm glad you're doing this aspecialspace, thx. I'm not going to respond point by point to your questions but I do want to give you a link.

I think this card is a good idea and you might suggest that the PD create a simple page on their website to encourage parents to print this card for their ASD kids to carry. You could ask AANE for permission to use it or develop something similar. On the page you will also notice Dennis Debbaudt's email address. You might want to contact him for ideas or his news letter. I don't know him so I have no idea how open he would be to helping you with ideas for your presentation. Worth a try.

In general I think the lights and sirens will be the biggest problem but ASD is a spectrum so 2 people can react in completely different ways in a similar situation. Another problem that can come up in communication is that officers are trained to use non verbal communication i.e. command presence and the like. The ASD person will not respond normally to non verbal communication so it can cause an escalation in tension for both people; the autistic because he won't be able to interpret it properly and the LEO because the person isn't responding to authority. On that note, I think it's important for the officers to understand gaze aversion in ASD because in a normal situation gaze aversion would instantly put the officers on guard. They need to understand that in ASD this is not a sign of wrong doing.

For me personally I would respond better to a female officer but I don't know if this is the case it general. I suspect this may be true for many people with ASD. If the PD you're working with will ask a volunteer officer to to stay on top of this you may want to consider recommending a female officer.

Hope this helps.

I dont really hate them but i get really nervus which makes me look guilty and then they press me and i get more upset which makes me look more nervous. They start to understand a bit when i tell them i am a aspie. Lol is kinda funny when it is all over but horrifing when it is happing. (i actually wana be a cop strangely)

1. I'm pretty OK with them and I feel pretty safe when they are around.

Questions 2-6. I really don't have meltdowns or shutdowns, so my only answer is to let them do their job.

7. Again, I have never had a meltdown or shutdown and I generally have a calm and non-suspicious demeanor. If someone reported me missing and I was stopped by a LEO, I would just ask him/her what I would need to do to get the situation resolved.

8. I know this will probably be an unpopular opinion, but if someone is a threat to the public, then they must be treated as such.

1. It depends on the situation.

2. I don't think a fire or other emergency would cause a melt down for me, but I might get somewhat panicked. My melt downs are caused by people stressing me out by doing things that upset me, such as the tormenting other kids did when I was growing up, and my relatives bothering me. I have not been a kid in decades, and no longer live with my relatives, so I haven't had a full melt down in years. The most recent was actually caused by an opioid pain med when I had shingles several years ago. I took myself off that as soon as I could stand the pain on my own. I think they would be able to deal with me by talking to me if I was conscious. If I am unconscious then it doesn't matter, does it.

3. Mostly see #2 above. However, if I were conscious and needing treatment, I would appreciate people telling me what's going on, and what they are going to do, and what they may need me to do. I would prefer that they do so without sounding angry or too bossy. I spent most of my life with angry, bossy relatives, and hearing that in people's voices gets me upset, and tends to make me dig in my heels, or want to get away, or start to shut down.

4. If I were shut down I would be able to hear instructions, but might not be able to respond or comply well to them. This could be a problem in an emergency. However, in an emergency, I would be more likely to want to know what was going on, and what should I do, rather than shut down.

5. If I were in a burning building type of situation, I would prefer someone tell me as calmly as possible what to do. It would probably help me calm down enough to respond better to needing a physically helping hand or other touch. Fortunately, although I don't like being touched, I can handle it without freaking out, if it's necessary. I know it's worse for some of us.

6. If I were conscious, they should calmly ask if I am injured or in pain. I am an Apsie, not HFA, so I talk fine, when I want to. I'm very introverted, so I often don't want to, but if I needed help, I would talk to the emergency workers. I had to talk to a lot of medical personnel when I had a female bleeding problem. It turned out to be cancer. That was years ago, and was fixed.

7. & 8. Any authority types should approach me calmly and non aggressively. Aggression would just make me feel threatened, which would just make me more upset. Mega dittos for restraint. As long as I am not trying to hurt anyone else, ABSOLUTELY don't try to restrain me. That will only make me even more upset. They can talk to me and give me a chance to calm down on my own. Clearing people away is a good idea, too. Although I am not given to throwing stuff, that's a possibility. I'm not a violent type of person, but can get very upset if very stressed. That's why I no longer live with relatives. It was too stressful.

A card isn't going to do much good if I'm unconscious, or freaking out, and if I'm rational and conscious, then I don't need the card. However, it might help some of the lower function folk or verbally challenged on the spectrum.

I think the answers we are giving are also relevant for upset NTs in similar situations. All too often police themselves over react to situations of upset people, and instead of giving the person a chance to calm down, they tase them, or use other kinds of force to restrain them, or worse kill them--when all that was needed was some time to calm down. Also, when aggression is used on a person who is already upset, they may also escalate, which can lead to police or bystanders getting hurt or killed. The police should be taught to give upset people a chance to calm down, rather than using any kind of force to deal with them.

Thanks for what you are doing.

1. Law enforcement generally makes me a bit nervous, though ultimately it depends on the situation.

2. I don't know really, as long as they get me out of the situation I'll probably be ok.

3. Maybe.

4. I might, if I don't respond it may take a few seconds for me to realize whats going on and get out of the shutdown

5. I would be fine as long as I am aware that they will be touching me. If its unexpected, I might freak out a bit.

6. Not sure.

7&8. Unless the person melting down is actually trying to hurt someone, just clear the area until they calm down. Don't try to use restraints or even approach unless its really nessasary, since that will probably just make things worse.

Probably depends on the situation. But in general I don't like them. I do feel threatened by them. They make me nervous and don't make me feel safe.



Point me to the exit.



Yes, that shouldn't be a problem



Yes, again it shouldn't be a problem.



I shouldn't have a problem with that.



Ask me.



I have no real preference.



Just handcuff them quickly. Avoid using guns, batons, tasers, or pepper spray.

I actually kind of like flashing lights and sirens. So it shouldn't be a problem. However excessive use of sirens near me, or when I'm trying to find a place to pull over is annoying. Red and blue lights are usually enough to get may attention. Also spotlights shining directly into my face or my rearview mirror is extremely irritating.



One would be better.



I would rather that they not don't that.

Yeah, I've had that happen to me too. Which several times has resulted in the cops handcuffing me and searching my car. Because they said I was acting suspicious.

They represent an unfamiliar element in my life. I can't really predict how they'll act because I don't know how a police officer should act. So, they make me a little uneasy, though I have nothing against them.

Keep it simple. Nothing too complex, one step at a time. If they're verbal instructions and I can still process them, then give them in single steps and wait until I'm done to give me the next step. If I can't understand verbal instructions and you have to physically try to lead me somewhere, let me see what you're going to do before you do it--don't grab me from behind. Unfortunately, if I'm in extreme meltdown and panicked, you may just have to drag me out, because at that point I'm just not capable of understanding things, and have probably lost the ability to do any higher cognitive tasks at all. If you do have to do that--or even if you manage to maneuver me out in a gentler fashion--find a quiet, calm place without strong smell, noise, or bright light where I can go to recover. Some autistic people like to be wrapped in blankets; giving me a blanket might help. Talking doesn't really help all that much until I'm capable of replying fluently; and it's probably a bad idea to make physical contact; but a quiet place does wonders for practically any autistic. If you can find people I know well, they may be able to tell you what helps me best, but in general--peace and quiet. Try the back of an ambulance, a small room in a building, or if worst comes to worst the small space between parked cars or in between shrubs. Unless I'm panicked and trying to run, don't try to lock me in--it only makes things worse. Though, until I'm coherent and have a basic plan for the future, it's probably a good idea to keep somebody nearby, just in case.

It depends. A full-out meltdown, no, because by that point I just can't understand what you're saying. But if I were only curled up and crying, or on the edge of a meltdown, I could follow simple instructions. Just say them once, clearly, and let me process them. If I don't react, try giving instructions in smaller steps.

During the last fire drill at my university, I was able to get myself out by fixating on a friend's wheelchair and following her out. I have a vague memory of a security guard hovering nearby during that time, but I don't really remember him. For autistic adults, remember that we've often had to find strategies for doing things when we're very stressed out; and my "find somebody and follow them" idea was enough to get me out.

Possibly. I'd hear them, and then I would have to recognize that they were words, and then I would have to figure out what they meant, and then I would have to figure out how to follow them, possibly by consciously planning the physical movements. That takes a little while when you are really overloaded like that. Clear instructions, with time to process, are the best shot.

I would hate it, but I'd forgive you later. Being touched feels a little like a physical shock when you're overloaded, so it could make things worse; but if you had to grab me and get me out, and I freaked out, it's not like I'd hate you for having to do it. If my brain blue-screens, and I'm in a dangerous spot, and I can't understand when you instruct me to follow you, then you do what you have to do and apologize later.

Just make sure that they know that we don't always react to pain. Some of us are unaware of it ourselves, not in touch enough with our bodies to figure out where the pain is. Others are aware of it, but don't automatically react to it, so you can't see that they're hurt except that they might be unusually quiet. Others might not know that they are "supposed" to inform someone that they are in pain. Asking specific questions helps in those cases.

Well, let's assume I'm not doing something risky like banging my head against concrete or darting into a busy highway. In that case, you're probably best off just standing there and letting me get used to your presence. For the most part, meltdowns can't be stopped; and the best way to handle them is to let them run out on their own. It's very much like handling a seizure--you just make sure I don't hurt myself, and wait until I can think again. It helps if you can get people to stop yelling and crowding.

Exactly. Most of us are like that. Some of us have trusted people, like parents or spouses, that we like to have with us and hold us tightly when we're overwhelmed, and some have assistance dogs trained to lean on you when you are overwhelmed; but being hugged by a stranger would be scary and overwhelming.

Keep them from hurting themselves. Keep sharp things away, keep them from banging their heads on hard things if they're not wearing a helmet. Restraints are likely to prolong a meltdown, forcing the person into panic mode until they are too physically exhausted to move anymore. It's a highly unpleasant experience which I've had and don't care to repeat--the sheer helplessness of it. You feel like a trapped animal; you would literally chew off your own leg to escape if it were an option. It's torture. Only to save somebody's life would I ever condone it. Try other things first.

Yes. If someone uses PECS, get those cards and use those to communicate with them. Even somebody who can usually talk may have PECS as a backup system.

Yes. Get the gawkers away. It's embarrassing enough to have a meltdown in public without having fifty people watching you.

Have you considered getting somebody from a local ASD support group to talk to them? I don't mean a parent or a teacher; find someone who has an ASD themselves and has experienced meltdowns. If you can get multiple people for a panel discussion that would be even better.

Never had any problems with them. The only time I was "stopped" by a police officer was at the town block party when one asked if he could hold my bearded dragon:
[img]:thumb183190123:[/img]