Do you agree or disagree:The evil usually defeats the good.

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Czeslaw_Kowalski
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01 May 2012, 6:43 am

Thank God our LORD for this:
Unless God our LORD intervenes,the evil usually defeats the good.
If two men,A and B,are in a zero-sum game.They have the same intelligence while their standards of morality is different.A is a Restricted while B is an Unrestricted.If both of them have m choices,A would only choose n because the remaining m-n is immoral.Or at least A is less likely to choose the remaining m-n choices.B,not only could choose all of the m choices,also know that A would only choose n of them and don't need to worry about the remaining ones.That's why B is more likely to win.



ArrantPariah
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01 May 2012, 7:03 am

Well, we did defeat the Nazis.

But, you're right. Evil people usually win, particularly in office politics.

And, Karl Rove will be doing all sorts of evil to make sure that Evil wins the next presidential election.



TM
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01 May 2012, 7:24 am

It's not that "evil" always defeats "good". It's that unemotional thinking, a disconnect from social morality and the willingness to do literally whatever it takes always ensures a "win". People like to say "violence is never the answer" but violence is the ultimate answer.

If Person A and B are competing and Person A will not kill Person B and Person B already has quick lyme, a shovel and a spot picked out in the middle of nowhere, Person A's best choice is to get out of dodge.



Grebels
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01 May 2012, 8:27 am

Quote:
It's that unemotional thinking, a disconnect from social morality and the willingness to do literally whatever it takes always ensures a "win".


What do you mean TM, not evil but evil people?



TM
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01 May 2012, 8:45 am

Grebels wrote:
Quote:
It's that unemotional thinking, a disconnect from social morality and the willingness to do literally whatever it takes always ensures a "win".


What do you mean TM, not evil but evil people?


I don't like the labels of "good" and "evil". Emotions, social constructed morality enforced by shaming enforce artificial limits on people, so a person who acts outside of those will be more effective at attaining most goals, but will be viewed by society as "evil".



Oldout
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01 May 2012, 10:16 am

Perhaps what you're trying to say is -- people who play by the rules often lose to those who don't. Remember the cliche -- nice guys finish last. The fact is when one chooses to avoid the rules or common courtesy then of course one has an advantage.



1000Knives
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01 May 2012, 10:52 am

Ecclesiastes 3:16, 4:1, 8:12-14

Quote:
16 And I saw something else under the sun:

In the place of judgment—wickedness was there,
in the place of justice—wickedness was there.


Quote:
4 Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun:

I saw the tears of the oppressed—
and they have no comforter;
power was on the side of their oppressors—
and they have no comforter.


Quote:
12 Although a wicked person who commits a hundred crimes may live a long time, I know that it will go better with those who fear God, who are reverent before him. 13 Yet because the wicked do not fear God, it will not go well with them, and their days will not lengthen like a shadow.

14 There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: the righteous who get what the wicked deserve, and the wicked who get what the righteous deserve. This too, I say, is meaningless.



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01 May 2012, 11:25 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, we did defeat the Nazis.

We just traded Nazism with communism back then.


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01 May 2012, 1:09 pm

In my experience, it is the charismatic person who usually wins.
And charismatic people tend to be socio/psychopathic.

I must be a great human being, since I'm so darn unlikable. :wink:



Czeslaw_Kowalski
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01 May 2012, 7:12 pm

1000Knives wrote:
Ecclesiastes 3:16, 4:1, 8:12-14

Quote:
16 And I saw something else under the sun:

In the place of judgment—wickedness was there,
in the place of justice—wickedness was there.


Quote:
4 Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun:

I saw the tears of the oppressed—
and they have no comforter;
power was on the side of their oppressors—
and they have no comforter.


Quote:
12 Although a wicked person who commits a hundred crimes may live a long time, I know that it will go better with those who fear God, who are reverent before him. 13 Yet because the wicked do not fear God, it will not go well with them, and their days will not lengthen like a shadow.

14 There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: the righteous who get what the wicked deserve, and the wicked who get what the righteous deserve. This too, I say, is meaningless.


Only God our LORD could save us.Until then the good might usually be persecuted by the evil.Those with morality contribute a lot while get very little.Those without morality contribute very little but get a lot.



Czeslaw_Kowalski
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01 May 2012, 7:12 pm

Oldout wrote:
Perhaps what you're trying to say is -- people who play by the rules often lose to those who don't. Remember the cliche -- nice guys finish last. The fact is when one chooses to avoid the rules or common courtesy then of course one has an advantage.


Morality itself is a rule.



AdamAdam
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01 May 2012, 7:15 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, we did defeat the Nazis.


The common view of WW2 as a fight between "good" and "evil" is pretty skewed. the West had their own reasons for fighting, and it definitely wasn't just to help the poor persecuted victims of Hitler. Then there's the Soviet Union. Stalin was the real victor in 1945, so while the end of Nazism was obviously a good thing, I wouldn't say it was a triumph of good over evil. Far from it.



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01 May 2012, 7:19 pm

AdamAdam wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, we did defeat the Nazis.


The common view of WW2 as a fight between "good" and "evil" is pretty skewed. the West had their own reasons for fighting, and it definitely wasn't just to help the poor persecuted victims of Hitler. Then there's the Soviet Union. Stalin was the real victor in 1945, so while the end of Nazism was obviously a good thing, I wouldn't say it was a triumph of good over evil. Far from it.


This is right because of the fall of Nazism the rise of the USSR was the aftermath of the war and Stalin was the same mad man that Hitler was.



Subotai
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01 May 2012, 8:20 pm

I find morality to be so laughably hypocritical.
It's clearly just at it's roots a manifestation of our social instincts, otherwise why is it so full of double standards? A good example is the "moral" standard of treatment of our own species vs other animals.
The universe is neutral, morality is an illusion and those who follow it sincerely are only handicapping themselves.
I find looking at things with intense realism to be much more genuine.


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Joker
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01 May 2012, 8:23 pm

Subotai wrote:
I find morality to be so laughably hypocritical.
It's clearly just at it's roots a manifestation of our social instincts, otherwise why is it so full of double standards? A good example is the "moral" standard of treatment of our own species vs other animals.
The universe is neutral, morality is an illusion and those who follow it sincerely are only handicapping themselves.
I find looking at things with intense realism to be much more genuine.


Realism and reason can some times have conflict with each other.



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01 May 2012, 8:26 pm

Of course morality is very hypocritical at times, but I think it's really a necessity for the functioning of society. The vast majority of people benefit from society's moral rules.