Fiance problems

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The backstory: been together about 2.5 years, living together about 2 years, engaged about 4 months (after about a year and a half of near-incessant hassling about it). I'm undiagnosed but strongly suspect I have AS, she agrees with my assessment, which I "figured out" nine or so months ago. I have some issues with her but they aren't huge, and are primarily related to her leaving messes around the house and not following through with things she says she's going to do.

So last night coming home, I was told that we need to go to couples counseling and/or I need to get diagnosed, because apparently I inadvertently make her feel "small," etc. The issue isn't new but the stated need to see someone about it is. I'm not a fan; I really don't want to go see someone about being diagnosed, largely for professional reasons but also because I just really don't want to for some of the reasons people discuss in threads on getting diagnosed vs. not. Also, a few relationships prior I was dragged to couples counseling by someone I really shouldn't have been with nearly as long as I was and I've got a strong negative association with it.

What the heck do I do here? It feels like I'm in a no-win situation. I don't want to lose her, but apparently I'm borderline unbearable. Both her suggested ideas are anathema. I've tried "being nicer" but when the problem is that I bug her about doing something she says she's going to do - especially if it's pick up her clutter - when she doesn't, I don't know that I can stop. Any suggestions, advice, etc., particularly from someone who's been in a similar situation, would be very much appreciated.

You have my empathy, even though I can't be of much help. My exes (and one casual fling I actually wanted a relationship with) have told me I made them feel unwanted, unloved and so on.

It seems like you'e got a good handle on your options
1. go to counseling and maintain your relationship
2. don't go to counseling and don't maintain your relationship
Which would be the lesser of two evils?

stop getting after her about the clutter. she's an adult and needs to deal with her own cleaning up issues. scolding an adult is always bad form. perhaps you could suggest she have a "messy area" where it's okay to clutter and you will keep the other areas clutter-free.

i don't know that you need couples counseling, but if you do, it could be a whole lot different with a different woman and a different counselor. i wouldn't let one bad experience get in my way.

i am good at helping poeple with relationships (accept my own) ironically... what are some to the reasons you dont want to be diagnosed...

I vote for going to the couples therapy, largely so you can figure out if the clutter thing is a deal breaker.

I'll be honest, I get overwhelmed trying to sort my clutter and my husband has simply learned to live with it. If he sorts it for me, trying to make that final decision on what to keep, it stresses me out. But the idea of getting into it to do it myself, I'll think of 8 ways from Sunday to avoid it. I just can't help it.

One thing I can promise - reminding me about it will NOT make it any better.

But sometimes my husband gets the timing right, and will ask what my goals for a weekend are. And if I don't have many, he might say, "I would really love to have the hallway clear of those kid's clothes we were expecting to give away." And then he doesn't. say. another. word.

The truth is I hate this about myself, that I avoid the chore. And I suspect your fiance feels similarly. It's not like she doesn't know, already, that she let you down and doesn't already feel bad about it - - odds are, she does.

You've got to accept that people are filled with flaws, and figure out which ones you can live with and KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT about. My husband leaves the cabinet doors open, CONSTANTLY, I don't get it, but you know what? I've decided that they are little reminders that my loved one has been there, and I can close them myself without making a comment. One little trade off for practically being a hoarder.

In a permanent relationship, you learn to take on the jobs the other person can't handle, and hope that it all balances out over time, while never actually expecting it to. You learn to not remind your partner of all the ways they are imperfect, and to make them feel that you really do love them just as they are, no matter what, even if you do never stop wishing they "just" do X.

You learn to find GENTLE ways to help them be their better selves, that are encouraging without making them feel small.

If you don't think you can do those things, you need a counselor or some other 3rd party to help you figure out how severe the divide is, to decide if you can learn to not care about the failures or if it will eat at you over the years. Maybe you can figure this out on your own, but you will have to start listening to your fiance better than you have, because one thing that strikes me is this: she wouldn't be making these requests if she felt like you understood - or even were seriously trying to understand - where she is coming from.

Sorry to hear that you go through the same. I guess I'm appealing enough at first but too much to handle over time.


It's not so much as I couldn't handle going to counseling (not that it wouldn't be challenging), just that I can't imagine it would be productive - and I'd get to foot 100% of the bill, to boot.


I think the "messy area" thing would just come off as more condescending. Besides, it's everywhere. I rationally know it would be different, I'm just extremely apprehensive to even consider it. I try to ask her to pick her things up nicely but apparently I'm too transparent.


IMO not particularly relevant, but cost, time, professional reasons, and the generalized unquantifiable stress of doing so. What are the reasons I should want to be?


You've given me a lot to think about. One thing sticks out at me though - it seems that it should be easier for a grown, well-adjusted adult to pick up a few things than for someone with some issues to have to deal with crap lying around and empty pledges. I may also be biased thanks to a relationship with a compulsive liar that went on far, far too long.

Yeah. I'm sorry about all this. These are the only suggestions I have.

You've got to own your own emotions (and I'm not necessarily saying you don't, I'm just assuming b/c of your language like "bug" "feel small" and "unbearable."

Your anger or frustration (or whatever emotion) comes from you, belongs to you, and is your responsibility. Your own actions and the things you say are your responsibility too.

The more you focus on your wife's clutter, which is just the way she roles (you can't assume she'll change), the less energy you have to deal with your own response (which is the only thing you're actually responsible for--and accountable for).

Another option is individual counseling for you, so you can learn how to deal with the hardships in your relationship without becoming unbearable.

Of course, neither couples or individual counseling will help you unless you recognize something that you want to change in yourself. And so far, you seem to only be considering it because of your wife--even though you knew that her feeling "small" had been an issue for a longer time.

I don't know very much about your situation, these are just some general truths that I believe in.

excuse me--*your fiance's clutter. Not your "wife's."

You would think. But people's weaknesses are odd things, and could/should/would don't play much part, unfortunately. I don't know why it is so hard for me to do certain things, it just, is.

Close enough.

Appreciate the comments. I feel well in control of my emotions, I guess I tend to use a lot of words that to many are "loaded," but I don't mean them in those ways. Just so happens that this is an issue we (self + fiance) deal with regularly..

A messy live-in S.O. has been an issue in the past. Try or not I don't think it's something that won't bother me, at best it's something I could try to keep my mouth shut about - but invariably it'll come out when I'm stressed out, angry, etc. Maybe counseling would help...I guess I'm just really apprehensive to go thanks to the time (I'm generally very busy with my own interests - today is an exception), cost (100% on me), and the feeling that we're supposed to go so that *I* be the one who has to change.

I really, really don't want to be making a "how do I deal with this break up" thread in a few months. It would undoubtedly be messy.

Well, sadly, IMO, having the tendency to say hurtful things is just as difficult of a pattern to change as leaving clutter around. Both sound like deep-rooted, habitual behaviors.

Something will have to change for the relationship to work (so it sounds), and I doubt your fiance will suddenly become someone who never angers or irritates you.

Also, just to pick on words, you don't have to be in control of your emotions. I can't think of more than one or two people in the entire world who I would even suspect are in control of their emotions. Maybe the Dalai Lama. But the only thing you are in control of is your own actions, including the words you choose or whether or not you choose to try to change parts of yourself.

Probably, if you go to couple's counseling, the counselor will not assert that you're the only one who has to change. They will probably focus on both of you (I think). But I think that in reality, you do have to change if you want to make the relationship work.

I can see why your fiance is upset if you talk to her like this, "it seems that it should be easier for a grown, well-adjusted adult to pick up a few things than for someone with some issues to have to deal with crap lying around and empty pledges."

The thing is, it isn't up to you whether a "full grown adult" picks up their "crap." What is up to you is whether you, as a full grown adult, can manage whether the words coming out of your mouth are helpful or "crap."

Because, even though you and your fiance are both contributing to the success of the relationship, the only person you can control is yourself.

Counseling might teach you some other ways to ask for what you want, and some responsible ways of expressing your feelings--but you can also learn that from books and practice. Of course, you have to want to do that for your own happiness and your fiance's.

And I'm also sorry that I'm a little biased. I've also been in relationships that went on for too long. I don't know what your relationship is actually like, but I've been criticized for having "crap" around. So, I know I sound a bit harsh.

I don't talk to her like that, I phrase things much, much more gently - apparently I'm just rather transparent.

Sounds like counseling is going to be necessary if this is going to work...jebus help me.

Haha. I bet it's going to be great! Counselors are pretty decent people usually. Don't worry.

Maybe there are low-cost options? I see a counselor at my local University. She is very inexpensive b/c she's not certified yet, though she's gone through all the school.

go see a counselor its best thing yall can do

I don't really get the association between her being messy, and her feeling that you make her small. Is the real issue the mess, or how you speak to her?

I really enjoy my clutter, but my spouse is a neat freak.

So, he cleans. I have offered to pay for a maid but he prefers not to do that. It is a compromise we make in our relationship. I do try to keep common areas cleanish. My office is as cluttered as I like.

He teases me, and is sometimes pissed off with me about the messiness. But he doesn't make me feel small.

Perhaps you need to negotiate for what you want, or be clearer about your expectations, or you need to accept that she will always be messy and you love her anyway, or perhaps she is just spoiled.