Avoidance Spirals

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Hello all. I'm starting to figure out what one of my main problems is, and I'd like to know if anyone recognises the problem and has some tips for how to deal with it. Basically, the problem is getting trapped in "avoidance spirals".

I'm going to provide some details of my current situation in order to illustrate the problem, but keep in mind that the specifics are irrelevant, since the exact same phenomenon has happened throughout my life in various different contexts. My current situation is that I am working on a year-long project at university. This means that I have meetings with my supervisor, lectures related to my topic that I really ought to attend, and meetings with colleagues who are working on similar topics. Apart from these, I am pretty much free to do what I want, but I know that I work most effectively at university so ideally I would spend most of my time there.

Here is the typical life-cycle of an avoidance spiral in my current context:

(1.) Something happens and starts to trigger destructive thoughts. This can be something relatively significant, such as running late for a meeting, or it can be something that would seem incomprehensible to a normal person, such as noticing that there is an email from the university and immediately thinking about what sort of terrible things might be in it. Sometimes the trigger is something so minor that I never actually figure out what it is, but I have come to believe that there is always a trigger, no matter how silly.

(2.) The destructive thoughts repeat over and over in my head. In my current context, these thoughts are things like "you're a fraud", "everyone else at the department is much more talented than you", "you have made an irreversible mistake in your academic career and now you are in a place where you don't belong". You might immediately wonder whether there might actually be something to these thoughts. Well, I spent an entire year thinking that, but I can't argue with the objective evidence, and the objective evidence says that I am precisely where I belong. I get very good feedback, but it doesn't make the destructive thoughts go away. I often used to joke to myself that I would still have these thoughts even if I won the Fields medal; now, sadly, I think that it is literally true.

(3.) The destructive thoughts paralyse me and cause me to actually screw up something. Either I get too terrified to check my email and phone, or I miss a meeting, or something like that.

(4.) Now that I have actually done something wrong, I get caught in a trap. The destructive thoughts are stronger than before since now I actually have "evidence" that I am a failure, and the stronger destructive thoughts mean that I am paralysed and end up missing even more things.

(5.) I have only ever managed to recover from an avoidance spiral when somebody notices that something is wrong and talks to me about it, or when somebody goes out of their way to contact me so that I can't avoid them. Until now. I am in an avoidance spiral right now, and I am going to try to end it by myself by typing this post. I hope that it works.

Want to know what triggered this particular avoidance spiral? Winning a cash prize for my presentation at a conference. That's right. I am actually a crazy person. Winning a prize made my destructive thoughts go haywire, since I got paranoid that the jury had made some sort of mistake.

Hi,

I so strongly identify with this.
I really like the term avoidance spiral, that's a great description of it.

I suppose for me I could term it extreme involuntary procrastination, but your description is very similar to what I experience. I sometims call it to myself 'the overwhelm', it can be almost completely paralysing, I can almost shutdown.

I'm currently trying very hard not to get stuck in one at the moment. It is a big struggle, in my case I'm trying to finish writing up my PhD, it's taking longer than I want it to, so I start to feel panicky and then really struggle to do anything at all.

I find direct thought challenging with me can actually make things worse as my brain insists on gaging things in degrees of likelihood so it one part of my brain can say well x scenario is unlikely, and another part will say yes but it could be as much as 20% likely, cue ensueing spiralling fear....um....err...oops this isn't working

In my case I do realise I'm doing it, which can be helpful, but can also just make me very angry with myself (not helpful).

And yes, good stuff - in particular praise, has sent me into an avoidance cycle on occasion.

Things that have helped me are:
1) Learning some meditation techniques, this helps me to spot thoughts and just treat them as thoughts just passing by in my head and not get caught up in them. I particularly like self-compassion based techniques.

2) Talking to myself kindly, and in an encouraging way, rather than shouting at myself, when I start to think like this, is also very important.

3) A technique which is called something like 'naming the story '- when you spot a particular cycle of thoughts in your head, you go in a light kind way something like 'Oh ok, it's the 'I'm not really good enough story' - thanks mind' and then having labelled it you don't pay it further attention (This a technique from Acceptence Commitment Therapy -ACT) You thank you're mind cos it's usually just trying to protect you from a potential perceived danger based on deeply engrained evolutionary stuff, it's just not actually really helping cos this isn't actually a flee / freeze from the bear situation....just your lizard brain - the amygdala thinks it is. If the same type of thinking comes up again, which it almost certainly will, you keep on 'naming the story' as you need to.

I frequently experience the 'not good enough story' I also get the 'I might be going crazy' story :).

Naming the story can be used to calm things down, to not enagage directly, and help to stop spiralling up the anxiety.

These techniques can work quite well for me, provided I manage to remember to use them :)

However, I often still get stuck in avoidance spirals, so would love to hear from others on how you handle them.

To add to TalksToCats,

If it helps, another part of the "oh, that's the 'freaking out and standing still' story" is that you're not the only one it happens to. You might be tempted to add to your distress by thinking that "only a nutcase like me get trapped in the brain like this." Thing is, I think everyone runs into this at least some of the time, and at least two other people right here have owned up to it

So it's not so uniquely bad, it just needs to be left behind when it happens.

To all:

Does this sound familiar? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

I have met many post grads and PhD students who suffer from this although the more intelligent someone is seems to heighten the chance. (I know I do) If that is you, maybe you need to search for ways (psychological research) so that you can start internalizing your accomplishments.

Now for the spirals:

I know exactly what you're talking about, I've been having a horrible one for the last 3 days, the trouble with mine is that when they are severe, I don't eat or sleep.

But the more moderate and mild ones have often been present in my life, and I can strongly identify with what you described.

Generally it takes my housemate (he lives at the main house) to notice and he waits until I come to the main house for food, ambushes me, talks to me and that is usually enough to snap me out of it. It takes another person going over everything logically with me in order to snap me out of one, I can't just do it by itself unless it's in the first stage. So do you have friend or family member who could do that for you?

If you can catch yourself in the first stage (when you're just thinking it and haven't yet acted on it) and combat it with logic, it seems to help. Because I can catch myself now, I have much less of them, but the rare ones I do have are more severe.

ACT or CBT may be other options to address the issue?

Declension, was any of this helpful?

Last edited by Kjas on 19 Jun 2012, 7:20 am, edited 5 times in total.

Thanks for that.

I do exactly that far too often and I love the description the 'freaking out and standing still story'. In fact I'm doing that right now , ok Thanks Mind - time to get moving...

My SO sent me link about imposter syndrome sometime ago .

aI would say most /all of my female postgraduate friends /acquaintances suffer from imposter syndrome on occasion.

qI also tend to get more infrequent extreme avoidance cycles, though not as bad you describe KJas, I can sleep, just very badly. So I really sympathise with what you describe - hope it gets much better soon.

Unfortunately I don't have anyone to talk me down though, so I have had to try to find other methods to handle it (like the ACT stuff). At the moment I am also back on an anti-depressant medication, at the lowest possible dose I can get away with, this seems to prevent extreme reactions, but I'd much prefer not to have to take it.

My SO for, all his many strengths, just doesn't get why I can't move past it when I'm truly stuck like this; for him it's just illogical, which I completely agree with, and he finds it somewhat exasperating that given I CAN see logically what the problem is why I can't just fix it, as do I.

Thinking about it, maybe I need to explain to him that my logic brain is sometimes ajust being so completely overwhelmed by the fear at the time it can't get heard, I haven't tried doing this yet.

I have no other close friends I can talk it through with. When I talk to my parents it tends to panic them / upset them. I also get a lot of 'you'll get there, you always do' which when I'm stuck in one of these spirals is not what I need to hear as my brain starts screaming silently in reply 'but what if this time I don't?'.

BTW I have worked out very recently that for me personally the root of these spirals, is an irrational fear of total rejection and ostracisation. (I was bullied a lot for being / appearing clever at school hence why praise can be a trigger for me). Knowing this is helpful, but it hasn't stopped the spirals.

I'm too embarrassed to discuss just how bad it gets with other friends, it's just feels too personal, and a bit freaky to explain to others (tho' it appears I can talk about it online hmmm...)

Maybe some of us who get this should try and form some kind of mutual support structure...

To the people around you who might be able to help you (be that a SO, parent, close friend etc) explain and ask them to do this for you when they see it happening:

Sit them down and explain, although logically you agree with them, that when you are in one of these spirals, your logical brain "shuts down" (the same way it does in a shutdown, overload or meltdown) and that your "emotional brain" is in full control, so to speak. Explain that all you need them to do is to go over every step with you logically, in order to blast the stupid emotional illusion to bits, and that way your logical brain will return in full control again. See if it helps.

Maybe we should have a thread on this.... I know I'm not the only one who does this, I have seen others here do it also.

Funnily enough, when I am stuck enough on something that I'm spiraling and I ask for help on here, I don't get any help (perhaps because they don't know how to deal with it?). When I am fairly ok but others think I need help, I get plenty of offers despite the fact I don't need help.

Kjas that's really great advice. My SO seems a bit low on energy and a bit burnt out at the moment and needs a break from work so I'll probably wait 'til he's had this before I try this with him.

In the meantime I though I might try this (Mods if this isn't the right place for this please move it - I don't want to thread hi-jack here).

I thought might try posting my current recurring avoidance spiral in brief, and offer some of my logic arguments, and useful thinking patterns, against it; this might help me as I can come back to them here and check it when the spiral gets worse, (it also might help others too), plus if anyone else has any other helpful suggestions from their logic brains perhaps they could mention them here.

(I should mention that I'm lucky in that - generally - my 'logic brain' does not completely utterly shutdown - it - usually - still works it just gets nearly completely drowned out by the silent shouting, screaming jumping up and down, weeping etc side of my 'emotional brain').

------

So here goes:-

My current avoidance spiral is:-

I'm not doing this writing up fast enough -> I need to write faster if I don't I'll never get finished, my supervisors will be disappointed, my SO will be disappointed and also I'll be really disappointed -> I can't cope with this - I hate disappointing people -> i can't cope with this - I must cope with this or I'll never hold down a job again -> I'm never going to cope with this -> I'm not good enough for this -> I may be going crazy (again) -> Help, Help Help I want to hide....[cue avoidance activities...partial shutdown]

I've been this one for about a week now - occasionally I break out for a couple of hours and manage to do some work, but I haven't managed to do any at all for 4 days now...

So here's a try at some helpful responses:-
(and let you in on some of the craziness that lives in my head...)

Logic Brain (LB) - It understandable you're finding this stressful, lots of people trying to write have crises of confidence from time to time, you just have to take yourself gently back to trying the writing again, and just keeping doing this time again.
What helpful steps can you do to make this easier
FInd myself various alternate office space to work where there are less distractions / things I can use at home for avoidance - e.g the lure of cat, my fiction library, and the dvd player..
Oh good, yes I have these places I can go to, there is an office nearby I can sometimes use and a local university library and can go to as well - moving out the house seems to help at the moment, these are good solutions.

Emotional brain (EB) - yes but I've done this and its stopped working / I'm needing to work faster and faster and faster and I'm not and I can't do this and anyway I'm feeling soooo much worse than other students in my position do - it's scary - help help help - I'm going to go off and read WP some more and not do any work - go away and leave me alone...I said LEAVE ME ALONE...starts weeping copiously]

Logic Brain: - Oh hello emotional brain I see you're telling the 'I'm not good enough story', the 'you have to work like a crazy thing or not at all story', the 'I'm standing still and freaking out' out story and the 'It'll feel better if I do nothing' story. Well that's very kind of you, Thank you, but I going to spend some time thinking about these practical solutions which I think will help just now.

Compassionate Brain - emotional brain I am sorry you are feeling so bad at the moment and it's completely understandable that you're finding this stressful, lets gently try and give these practical solutions a go shall we...

EB - but it's still not going fast enough <howls>

LB - once you get more work done you will start to feel better, at the moment you're doing nothing, surely it's better to try and do a little - even if you don't do a lot straight away. All these little bits of work will mount up...

CB - Lets just gently try this again...

EB - sulkily, sniveling, well I could try

LB and CB together - lest start by heading to the library shall we, it's not a long walk from where we are now, we can get there, come on lets go...

----------------

Ok so I'm going to finish my coffee and head to the library now.

Any other helpful thoughts challenges to break this avoidance spiral more completely would very be very gratefully received.

[For info I am honestly genuinely quite badly behind on writing up at the minute...however obviously not writing anything at all is just making things worse...]

Or if you want to post you're own avoidance spiral, and solutions your solutions to it; and/or would like to see if my logical and compassionate brain can help you, please do...

(Don't worry my emotional brain isn't allowed to speak to anyone accept me very often - so I won't allow it to make any unhelpful suggestions on here - it doesn't type well) anyway...)

So I managed about an hours work actually writing up before I got distracted by WP again :lol:

But it was useful work, and more than I've managed in the last few days!

Will try and do a bit more later...

I'm not a grad at all, only had three semesters of college. But when I advanced in my jobs to levels that would ordinarily have been filled by someone with a degree, I experienced the same thing, feeling like I was an imposter, and even when I'd proven myself - worked circles around co-workers, earned awards and promotions, as well as the respect of my superiors - I STILL felt as if I had to constantly prove myself and that I was never really good enough.

The most stressful time was when I advanced to second level supervisor, and a grade level that I'd always been told I'd never reach without a degree. There were people who told me to my face I shouldn't be in that position without a degree. They actually became enemies, continually critiquing me. They seemed out to prove I couldn't hack it. So then it wasn't just me telling me I couldn't do it, others were telling me as well.

This leads me to think this is a socially imposed situation - even when it seems no one is telling the person they're no good - perhaps there are attitudes they're currently exposed to or have been in the past that tell them they can't do this.

There is one thing that I wonder about, and it's the suitability of work. I was an INFP doing technical writing, editing, and later a very extroverted type of job. Completely unsuited to my more creative, artistic and evevn domestic personality. (I'm one of the least logical people I know.) So in that sense I wasn't qualified, though I was in every other respect - I did the work, I did it well, I gained the experience. I knew my job better than anyone else. My boss even begged me not to take early retirement. But I felt unsuited to the work. In spite of that, I left feeling more like a failure than a success.

Edited to add: Another thing I wonder about is the class system and expectations we grew up with. I grew up in a working class family, with no expectations of attending college from my parents - my dad was a hs drop-out who later finished, and only two out of five of us - their offspring - ever attended college at all. If someone grows up with well educated parents or from an economic level where greater success is expected, are they as likely to experience this?

Last edited by SpiritBlooms on 19 Jun 2012, 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Avoidance spirals reminds me of why figure skating is entertaining to watch. Personally I find no joy in a skinny 14 year old on ice. What I do find interesting is when they mess up they start making other minor mistakes. Generally it ends up with someones ass on the ice. What is remarkable is when they screw up and don't fall down later. They seem to pull it in, push it off and focus. That is why it is worth watching.

Besides thinking what do you do to attempt to blow it off and focus? What I am interested in is odd solutions that one person uses that might help others here. I would assume telling yourself to just relax works as well for you as it does for me(it doesn't). I try all kinds of things. Generally taking 5 minutes helps. The world will be fine without me for 5 minutes.

Others?

There is something I used to do early in my work life when I worked in a photo processing lab. The busiest times were the beginning of a week right after a holiday weekend. People take lots of photos on holidays. There were days when I would arrive to find MOUNTAINS of film or prints waiting to be processed. During the course of my time there I first worked graveyard processing film, and later days processing prints. They had a 24-hour guarantee, so everything had to be completed by the end of the day. I was usually the first one to arrive, and on one of those days after a holiday, I'd take one look at the mountain of work to do, and I'd go into the dark room or the bathroom and have about a 5-minute cry. I mean I let myself bawl my eyes out, really let it out, for a good five minutes. After that I could put my emotions out of mind and face the work.

It was strange, years later, to see the movie Broadcast News where the woman would unplug her phone and have her cry at the beginning of each day.

When I was working riding a motorbike to work seemed to help a lot - I had a lot more anxiety the days I didn't. This used to get rid of excess adrenalin nicely. Helped me wind down at the end of the eday too. (For various reasons can't ride a motorbike at the minute sadly). Not quite the same as a 5 minute cry, but maybe achieving something similar.

Also SpriritBlooms, it really sucks your work mates didn't appreciate you. I strongly feel people should be rated on ability, not how many pieces of paper (qualifications) they do or do not have.

I also find a 5 minute breather can help, but saying just relax doesn't :).

SpiritBlooms the point you make about class is really interesting, I do wonder if you're right.

I guess my background is middle class, my parents were teachers, and went to college to train, one grandfather wasin the forces, the other a draftsman /designer.
I am the first in my family that I'm aware of, who has gone to University, and certainly the first to go onto postgraduate study /want to try to work in academia.

Even though my parents weren't working class the community I grew up in was very much blue collar / working class (although rural). For those I went to school with I was posh - my accent mostly, and also a show off, because I wanted to do well in school; the local attitude was very much there was no point in advanced learning as no local jobs needed it. Virtually no-one expected to go on to Unversity. My parents never discouraged it though, they'd made it very clear they were happy whatever I chose to do, they didn't actively encourage me to go to Uni either.

Makes me wonder tho' if your family / where you grow up is of a certain class or background or attittude maybe this does make imposter syndrome more likely. Interesting to think about...

I think it is a combination of factors. There's a huge difference between people bullying you and triggering these thoughts (like in Spirit's case), and someone being almost completely unable to internalize their own accomplishments.

In the case of the later, I think well above average intelligence, poverty, or a culture where education is not encouraged or valued, all make it more likely. Which probably explains why I have it!

Yes that makes a lot sense to me, in my case I think it might be some combination of both I was called stupid by a teacher when young and the too clever and a showoff in my teens by my peers. No wonder I'm confused

Thank you for your replies, everyone! I am back on track, and (fortunately) nobody even noticed I was gone.

A lot of things that people have posted are giving me food for thought.

Good idea. I think that I am always getting a little bit better at this. But I haven't yet fully internalised how utterly wrong my destructive thoughts tend to be. They are usually just laughably incorrect. Why do I listen to them?



I found that article a while back. It's definitely what I have. And it's not just me - I know of at least one other person at the department who suffers from this. The irony is that he feels bad when he compares himself to me. I tried to explain to him that I go through the same stuff, but I don't think he believed me.



That's right. In fact, it sometimes seems like the destructive thoughts are at their most powerful when I am relaxed. I've noticed that if I go out running, I can fill up my head with exertion so that it drowns out the destructive thoughts.

I thought I would post mine here because it has been a week and a half for this one so far. The first 5 days were the worst, and now it has gone from severe to moderate, but it's still freaking me out.

My current avoidance spiral is about tertiary study. I have just signed up for a course, but I am dreading actually going to it. Not because of the work, but because of the social side of it. At every previous educational institution I have been bullied badly, and always by other girls.

I know that if the bullying happens here, I probably won't make it through the course. I just can't do it again.

I went to the orientation last week, but I would have avoided that if I wouldn't have been kicked out of the course for not going to it. Thankfully and by some stroke of luck, I got stuck with a group of all guys for the day.

So currently, while I want and need to attend this course in order to change career paths, I am absolutely dreading it and avoiding it however possible. I just don't think I can handle any more bullying from women. Physical stuff I could fight back against, but this is always psychological and I can't ever usually react when it's happening because stupid aspie brain doesn't compute the social signals and alert me to what it is fast enough.

Can anyone help?

Last edited by Kjas on 25 Jun 2012, 5:54 am, edited 2 times in total.