Evidence for Neurodiversity or Disorder?

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Whether you believe AS is just a different brain or a disordered one, could you please explain what you base your views on? I'm trying to make up my mind between the two...

i believe i have a disorder because of all the social difficulties i've had. in the words of paul simon "some folks' lives roll easy as a breeze... some folks' lives never roll at all. they just fall." i see my main problem as a social learning disability. now i'm in my 50's, i'm more compensated, but for most of my life i watched folks' lives roll, while mine fell.

This question comes up a lot on WP, and I don't understand why it is important for any autistic person to think that they are different or disordered. It doesn't matter to me. I am just me, and the two labels are equally meaningless when I apply them to myself. I feel no attachment to either one. I am just me.

It's defined as a mental disorder.

You'll have to live with that.

I have a disorder, not a "difference."

Drum roll please.....

1. I require accommodations/assistance to do things that the overwhelming majority of the human race can do without accommodations/assistance.

2. No, I don't buy the "social model of disability." While it's true that what a person "should" be able to do is largely defined by the society in which they live, I find such considerations "cute" in an abstract intellectual way, but as having no real bearing on my life. The reality is that, in my society, and the majority of human societies on Earth, I am disabled, and fantasizing about an imaginary world where everybody thinks/acts like me is utterly irrelevant. A penguin who cannot swim is a disabled penguin. It doesn't matter a whit that there are creatures who cannot swim who are not penguins, and a penguin who cannot swim would not be disabled if it had been born as a creature who was not supposed to be able a swim. In the context of being a penguin, not being able to swim is a disability.

3. There are aspects to my disability that would still be disabling even if I was stranded on a deserted island.

Conclusion: I have a disability. I am not ashamed of it, nor do I view having a disability as a "bad" thing. It's just something I deal with in much the same way I "deal" with having blonde hair.

I think the U.S. has a rather warped view of "disability" that I refuse to subscribe to.

I am currently going with difference. But I am also fortunate enough to be able to do scientific research. . .so it is less obvious that I am different from others because there are a lot of researchers on the spectrum anyways. But I definitely understand why it is a disorder, and the longer i think about this I realize it is actually both.

Because we are wired differently we have a mental disorder. Mental disorders are really just labels that neurotypicals and other so-called mentally well-balanced people define as the minority. If more than 50% of the population was wired like us then it wouldn't be a disorder because society would have developed differently. . .
hopefully that makes sense. . .I am pretty tired and I rewrote this post a few times (mostly deleting irrelevant information)

When a lack in self help skills are central and/ or sensory overload is impairing, where is the difference? Plain simple theory of mind issues ( communicating) is impairing in the workplace (or can be).

Generally, I find it obvious that someone with a High IQ, and High emotional- social intelligence, will outform the above.

But, I think someone having the traits of Autism is beneficial. The Broader Autism Phenotypes, and (maybe ) having borderline AS, as in the sciences is interesting - it's the best of it.

I spent most of my life completely confused as to why I wasn't able to function like other people and why every attempt I made to make any progress whatsoever inevitably fell apart, sometimes spectacularly.

It is important to me to know that I am disabled because disability explains my life history. It gives my life history a context that makes it coherent and comprehensible.

I see it as both a difference and a disorder. The disorder means we must cognitively learn much that comes natural to NTs, but even after we have learned, the difference remains. If society in general were more understanding of this difference, life would be much easier and we would be much more productive

If you believe AS is related to classic autism it is difficult to believe AS is not a disorder. Autism is as 'common' as it is now because of reduced natural selection. In western culture 300+ years ago most people with classic autism and anything other than mild AS wouldn't have made it past early childhood. Especially in rural agricultural area where dad would take that extra mouth to feed, that doesn't produce anything for the family, out in the woods just like a lame horse. My definition of disordered would be based mostly on disadvantages to survival.

I find this a curious statement coming from you, btbnnyr. Isn't 'autistic' by itself also a label? And one, I would think, you place some value on, considering you're posting on a message board for autistics.

This isn't criticism of your opinion, as much as it is a cry for elaboration- I admire your insights in general, and I was just surprised that you would identify yourself as autistic, yet wouldn't be comfortable to take a stance on whether it's a neuro-difference or a disorder, as that would be the next logical step in specifying the term.

Unless, of course, you perceive autism as an integral part of your personality, and therefore as a personality trait. Just like how stinginess, impatience, elation, or bluntness could be perceived as personality traits from one perspective, or as undesired defects from another perspective, depending on how 'severe' they are.

While I am not completely sure I have it, I would consider it a disorder. I have never been able to have a romantic relationship because of my lack of ability to read these situations. This is despite my earnest desire for such a relationship, so for me it is disheartening to say the least. Even if I was to not have the difficulties reading the opposite sex, my dislike of new places, unfamiliar people and situations would also keep me from being able to try and find someone. Also, I am prone to depression and anxiety and have difficulties with concentration that made my academic life a living hell. Because of this, I am a person with an IQ in excess of 140 that delivers pizza for a living. I am also fairly disorganized and find it difficult to get going on any project because of my chronic fatigue. While the fatigue may not be related to AS, the disorganization likely is. Likewise, I have a special interest that takes up a lot of space and getting myself to get rid of the numerous cars, parts and mechanical things I have lying about is difficult because I worry I will need them some day and because I can't get motivated to do so. So, if indeed AS describes me and why I have the problems with life that I do, it is indeed a disorder and not merely a difference. I can't see someone whose life is as big a mess as mine is calling it otherwise.

"Difference" and "disorder" are concepts that are more closely related than most people realize.

It doesn't matter to me, per se, but it does matter to society, and it can have an effect on how others treat me.

If I lived by myself in an isolated cabin in Barrow, Alaska, it would be no biggie, but since I have to regularly interact with the outside world in order to obtain food, water, and shelter, it matters quite a bit.

It comes down to practicality.

The label of autism is useful to me, because I know that because I have autism, my brain does not pick up on non-verbal cues automatically to understand the states of mind of other people, so therefore, I am going to have to work out what people are thinking on purpose and with effort, or maybe I am going to have to ask them for clarification a lot. This is an eggsample of an autistic trait, and from this eggsample, we could go on to specify whether my autistic brain is disordered or different, because I have this autistic trait, but I don't find this specification necessary to make. It doesn't add anything for me personally, and it doesn't help me in any way, and I am not sure what it does add for other autistic people, or how it helps other people either. I think that it is fine for others to consider themselves different or disordered, either stance, but I still don't understand why it is necessary to take a stance on this issue.

In my mind, it's like, "Autism, that's a useful label for me to understand my traits and behaviors and ways of thinking, but difference vs. disorder, what do I get out of deciding that autism is one or the other for me?" For me, the answer is nothing, so that is why I don't use a label at the higher level of difference vs. disorder, but I do use a label at the lower, moar fundamental level of autism. Ackshuly, this is the first time that I have posted, on-topically, in a thread about this topic, I think. With the non-verbal cues eggsample, if I consider autism to be a difference, what does that get me? I will still have to work to figure out what others are thinking if they don't tell me directly. And if I consider autism to be a disorder, what does that get me? I will still have to work to figure out what others are thinking if they don't tell me directly. But here is an eggsample of the label of autism helping me. Before my diagnosis, I did not know what was causing me to feel so physically ill and mentally discombobulated all the time, but afterwards, I realized that it was sensory overload, because sensory overload is associated with autism, and from then on, I took steps to protect myself from sensory overload, such as by wearing a baseball cap against overhead lighting or getting a flexible work schedule or limiting social interactions, and these things all helped me to function bester and be able to do moar things. So the label autism helped me a lot, but taking a stance on difference vs. disorder, I don't see how that affects me in any way.

When I first got diagnosed, I did really consider the difference vs. disorder issue, and I waffled back and forth between them, but now, I just know that my traits are my traits, and I am going to figure out ways for myself to do and continue to do what I want to do in life, so the issue went away completely.

Neither. It's just one end of a spectrum on which every human sits. People considered NT sit nearer one end. People are at least sprinkled all along the spectrum to Autism. This spectrum is, if you will, the sister spectrum to the more easily measured intelligence spectrum. Together these two spectrums form a sort of core (trunk) from which most psychology branches. Those branches are influenced by their environments to form a personality. You see an increase in problems (both social and personal) near either end of both spectrums.