Could it be Autism? I'm tired of dissecting my daughter!

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Hey all, this is my second topic here. I've been away for awhile because I wanted to let my just turned 3yr old develop and sit back and watch and appreciate her. If she never developed a shudder at 1.5 yrs, I never would have thought she was anything but NT. Every time she does something that reminds me of some red flag I've read about. So I'm trying to figure out what are actual indicators that there may or may not be something wrong. The concerns I have first, shes hyper, not always but more than I think she should be at 3. She has anxiety issues, from water being to hot, to the man across the street trimming the hedges, that we can not see. She does not suffer from echolacia, but her language and demeanor can seem a bit eccentric for the situation, almost like she says things a certain way because she thinks shes supposed to (I hope that makes sense). Shes hard to read because she has been saying so much for so long. Shes an incredibly picky eater who cries at the thought of trying new food. I was however successful at getting her to at least try some white rice tonight. Her storytelling is ridiculous. Every story starts offs with "When I was a little girl", sometimes they are real stories, and sometimes they are complete BS. Her best imaginary friend is Lucy from charlie brown. She calls her pretend, but don't know if she understands that word. She does pretend play like putting on a show or singing, taking real songs and sometimes singing them correctly, and sometimes modifying them. I don't know if the imaginary friend falls under a positive our a negative? Some incredible positives is that she is great with other kids, and often seeks out new friends wherever we go. She can read people emotions, and shows tremendous empathy. Her rote memory is ridiculous, which I've read can also be a red flag. Something tonight brought up a parade we went to last year, and some green monster scared her. We showed her a picture of gumby (who did not end up being the monster she remembered), then we watched a gumby video. Without sound she was able to identify gumbys mom and dad, mind you she had never seen this before. Would an autistic child of any sort be able to figure out and express that? She has also recently started drawing letters and people. Her people are so funny looking, big head, two legs coming straight down out of the head, and two arms sticking out where the ears would be. Shes making progress it would seem, I'm just unsure of her understanding of the world around her. Are there any other things I can do to test her, without pushing her? I feel like a crappy parent, knowing that ever since I read about autism, I'm constantly testing her and getting upset when she can not repeat a task shes done numerous times. I continue to get no support from friends and family on this, but they haven't read what I've read. I've tried to convince my wife to get her evaluated with me, but she doesn't see any need. I've read a lot about the gfcf diet that can help kids with autism,spd, adhd and other things, but that's a hard sell in my household when you don't see a need for it. I'm sorry for being so long winded, its 1am where I live, I should be in bed, but I'm writing this in privacy, so I don't have to heart any grief from my other half. I'm also sorry if I repeated things from my last post, I'm just looking for a direction to follow to guide this little girl. Thank you to anyone who took the tome to read this.

To me, the fact that she can pick up on the emotions of others fairly easily is a strike against autism. Then again, I also wonder if you have ever been tested yourself to see if you might be on the spectrum? The fact that you can't seem to let this go and are obsessing over it makes me wonder if you might well be mildly ASD yourself. There are some free tests you can take in the General Autism forum at the top of the index that should point you in the ballpark. After all, autism is usually hereditary and if she has it then it is likely that it runs in the family.

What does her pediatrician say, or have you not brought your concerns to the pediatrician, yet?

The pediatrician we had back when my son was toddler age would do a basic developmental screen at the various appointments.

Picky eating and anxiety does not necessarily mean autism, Imaginative stories are actually pretty developmentally appropriate and they are supposed to be silly (Is that what you mean by B.S?) Ours came late and one of the questions on the screen we used to flunk was not having that.

Good rote memory can be an Aspie skill, but in itself is not diagnostically significant.

I would not go testing GFCF diets for no reason. We don't do any special diets, so I do not have first hand experience, but I believe that they are tried in order to alleviate physical symptoms (unexplained digestive/tummy issues) and behavioral issues. It does not sound like these apply, but someone who is more familiar with the diet will be more informative. I would not mess with it unless you have a reason, because it is expensive and you will not be exposing her to as many foods. Food exposure is good for a picky eater because you want to get her to like more things so you have more options, and she can expand her palate.

I can't help thinking you're over thinking this and looking out for problems to some extent, that you're seeing them when they're not there.
Some of what you've mentioned are just things common to many 3 year olds. Her drawings sound completely appropriate to her age, her stories sound wonderfully imaginative (not very understanding of you to refer to them as ridiculous, or BS, by the way, I assume you mean not factually correct, and why should they be? She's three years old, the whole world is a magical and wonderful place).

Her worries about water being too hot, man across the street trimming hedge, these need not be labelled "anxiety issues " all kids have weird and illogical fears as they grow up, it's part of being a kid. Wasn't sure what you meant by "a shudder at one and a half"
I felt the same as outofplace in being struck by the fact you sound yourself slightly on the spectrum, and the fact that your wife and family (in particular your wife) do not share your concerns is to me significant.

Do you think you may perhaps be over analysing everything rather?

Her social abilities, the pretend play, and her ability to read emotions so well would make me think if she does have any issues it's not autism. These are the core deficits in autism. I think you're getting worked up about something that isn't happening. But when in doubt you should always get an evaluation. I'd like to add that if I were you I would not try a special diet with her right now, especially with no diagnosis. These diets are very restrictive.
Try to remember that she's 3. Many children do bizarre things at 3, they can say things we find weird, they're still learning all the little details involved in language, they have tantrums when they don't want to try new foods. Many children do not respond consistently to their namr because they're kids and they get engrossed in other things, they don't always listen. Rote memory is not a criteria for diagnosis, it is simply a characteristic which sometimes shows up in autism. But as a red flag it's like saying because people with brain tumors get headaches, someone who has a headache must have a tumor. She sounds like a smart kid! Get an evaluation, but in the meantime you might find comfort knowing that if she does have Autism it's mild enough that I can't see it. I haven't seen any red flags in your post. Kids can be very intelligent and a little quirky without having autism!
It's normal to worry about your child's development.

can you explain the shudder she developed at 1.5? Does she still have it? When and how often does it occur?

It's awfully funny you mention me being on the spectrum, I can tell you for certain without any test, I've got some psych issues that I just don't consider "normal". Life for me is hard on a daily basis, dealing with other people, social anxiety, and basically "over analyzing" every word that comes out of someones mouth. When I started reading about my daughter, I did take some self tests and know I show some traits of "autism", the scary part is that I'm a lot like my mom.



Her pediatrician also has no concerns, but again I look at this as "well it's not her kid, so how much could she care". The picky eating and anxiety are her biggest issues in my opinion. The fact that she literally starts crying when asked to try new food, is bothersome to me. I have found she is more receptive to trying new foods with her friends, rather than adults in her life. As far as "b.s. stories", yes I means the ones that absolutely make no sense in reality. This is normal? I guess, I just don't understand kids!



I want to deeply apologize to anyone that took offense to my comment about her stories. I was trying to differentiate between her "reality" stories of what happened during her day, versus her "when I was a little girl, I took a spaceship to the moon", I did not know this was normal, she is the only child I have spent significant time with. Illogical fears, is exactly what they are. She is sometimes petrified of the unknown. I want to see the "fight" side of her come out at the appropriate times, rather than "flight". Again, I"m sorry if my statement was offensive.



The latest form of pretend play has gone down like this;
J: "Daddy, do you want some coffee?"
Me: "Sure honey, that would be very nice"
J: (Makes her way to her pretend kitchen) "Daddy, what color cup do you want"
Me: "The green one would be fine honey"
J: "Aww, Lucy drank it all"
Me: "Well that wasn't very nice of her, not to share"
J: :No daddy, it wasn't", (she than proceeds to go to the stairs, where her time outs are, and talk to Lucy about sharing)

This scenario of not sharing has taken place with a few different items, it always has us in stitches



The shudder was something that came out of nowhere. We were at a fried clam restaurant, and we were sitting at the table (I don't even know if she was eating at the time, but If she was it was not shellfish), anyway she tensed her arms and her jaw and began to quiver for about 3 seconds. When it stopped, there was no loss of consciousness, or eye roll or anything. From that point on we saw it many times, some days worse than others). It was usually brought on by food, watching some cartoon, or being told "no" when going to do something inappropriate. It lasted for a month or so, and then just stopped for awhile. Then it came back again for a brief run, brought on by the same triggers, including being told something that made her happy, that we may do later that day, such as visiting nana and papa. When I called the doctor about it, I got to talk to one of the nurses, who blew it off as "don't worry, kids just do this". I t really pissed me off, that they did not want to at least see her. After weeks of reading, and comparing J's symptoms to others, it came down to an autistic trait or benign shudder syndrome (disorder). One being a lifelong battle, and the other being something kids just grow out of.

I think it is the unknown that scares the crap out of me. Being the fact that, that I feel like I'm probably "on the spectrum" myself, I literally prayed she would not develop a thought process like me. When we were in the hospital when she was born, they wanted to give her a Hep B shot 2 days into life. I went home, read about the possibility of vaccines tied to autism, and told them not thanks. So the whole fear was inside me, before she was even born. The process of having J was a venture in itself, but that's a whole nother story. Thanks for listening to me babble!

Last edited by JsDad183 on 26 Jun 2012, 7:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

Something about anxiety you have to understand is, as ridiculous as the fears might seem to you they are very real for the person with anxiety, especially if that person is young child then the fears are likely to seem even more ridiculous to an adult. So be careful about how you treat the anxiety, best thing to do is be supportive and help her work through some of the more ridiculous fears...and be careful of pushing too hard because the anxiety symptoms really are pretty unpleasant for the person who gets them and being too pushy or acting like she's being stupid is likely to make it worse because then she would feel she's doing something wrong for being anxious....which you wouldn't want since anxiety isn't exactly something that is ones fault.

If flight is coming out when it should be fight, well that to me does indicate anxiety but you gotta be careful how you approach it...but there can be improvements and especially at a young age its very possible you could help her with this. However depending on how severe of anxiety she has how much improvement she makes in that area might vary.....but just keep in mind if she's worried about a ridiculous fear to her it's not ridiculous at all and the feelings are real so you have to approach it that way.

This doesn't sound anything like autism to me. Autism is a social/communication disorder.

I was under the impression it was a bit more than that. Though I cannot say much the OP said really stuck out as related to autism nessisarily...except the picky eating could involve some sensory issue.

Her imaginative play sounds delightful, and totally typical.

I would suggest getting a child development book (I haven't looked at a regular NT one in awhile because they just don't apply to us) Mayo clinic has a good one, that goes through age 5, that we used to use. There are plenty more. This way you won't panic so much, when she does non-literal things.

When you start reading up on child development, there are so many traits that run across 'types' of children. It could be quite possible she has some mild sensory processing issues; however, quite often heightened sensory processing and quirky ways of speaking are common in gifted children. As is speaking well quite early and other 'quirkiness'. Is it possible she is gifted? If you do have concerns, why not get a child psych evaluation (including IQ test) to put your mind at ease? Otherwise, if there are no developmental delays and no 'issues' that you feel are a real struggle for you/her, I agree with others--don't worry too much about waiting awhile to see how she does.
With my son, we got to a point where we felt 'at our wits end' with him socially, rigid behavior, aggressive behavior, sensory issues and we needed help. That's when we scheduled an appointment. And he is, it seems to most, just a regular (albeit bright) child.

Fair enough, but the reason I say this is because a lot of parents start to worry about autism based on sensory issues, kids walking on tiptoes, etc and these are just secondary symptoms, not the core deficits.

It sounds like perhaps your daughter has sensory issues, but that's it. People who aren't on the autistic spectrum can have sensory issues as well. Incidences of heightened senses are fairly common in intellectually gifted people, maybe she's gifted. Although being picky with food and having strange fears is normal for small children.

For my personal experience of autism, at that age I would have had very little in common with your daughter, I didn't start thinking of imaginative, non-factual stories until I was almost in double digits age wise. The 'stories' that I would tell my family at that age were facts that I heard on TV, my favourite fact to tell people is that giraffes have the same about of bones in their necks as humans. I couldn't really imagine things that weren't fact, and in fact when people tried to make me, or did that while I was playing with them 'e.g. Barbie is a princess and she has a flying unicorn as a pet', I would get frustrated, and try to play on my own.

I was a very picky eater though. I would have the same breakfast and lunch everyday, and I would try to get the same dinner, but my mum tried to mix it up. At that age, anyway, it all became a bit different.

This, compared to my NT brother, and cousin who has ADHD, was abnormal behaviour. They acted in much the manner you describe your daughter as acting, although they both behavioural problems, so there was also a lot of breaking things. Also, my cousin with ADHD has severe impulse control issues, so obviously there were out bursts.

Sorry if that seemed irrelevant, I just thought you would enjoy some context of child behaviour to enhance your understanding of her behaviour.

Well sensory issues are a fairly common symptom of autism...not sure what other disorders have that. Also from what I understand its based on a different brain functioning so I don't think its nessisarily correct to assume for one with autism it's always the social issues that are the most severe symptoms but the sensory issues can be a pretty big deal.

Also what exactly would the core deficits be than? I know there are the social issues but that's due to the different brain functioning, I mean they have not exactly found anything that points out autism specifically other than if one has enough of the symptoms.

You are obviously a very caring and loving father, and I wasn't offended at your saying bs re the stories, more surprised I suppose that you would not simply enjoy them for what they are, as this special imaginative time doesn't last for ever, so enjoy it while you can. Write some of those wonderful conversations down, because you will forget them!

You know I had a thought on that shudder thing. I know as a v young child my mom tells me I used to quiver and shake as favourite food came towards me, I don't know why, she didnt worry about it, and my own daughter had it too, she would tense her whole body up including her head and quiver as the spoon came towards her. Knowing I had done this I thought it rather sweet.
Another friend of mine has a four year old who tenses up and grimaces at times, regularly around food. They don't worry about it at all, well, she is their third child, so I'm sure with each you become more chilled out, I totally understand the narrow focus one can have when you just have one child, as someone said to me when I had my daughter, "welcome to the worry club"
Hopefully what many have said will give you some reassurance. I often wish I could go back to my childs early years and just enjoy her more, because I wont be having any more!