"Zero Emissions Vehicle"

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19 Jul 2012, 5:27 am

So I just got done taking an Electric Vehicle class. Mainly we focused on the sizing and installation of charging stations that most people will need to get the most out of Electric Vehicles.

However, the thing that most irks me about the class was the use of the industry pushed term "Zero Emissions Vehicle". I feel it's a misleading term. Used in a shell game to dupe liberal do gooders into thinking they are doing more for the planet then they really are. Although it may be technically true that the vehicle itself has no Emissions the power that is used to charge the Battery of that vehicle most likely does have a Carbon footprint. Depending on where you live and how your power is generated your "Zero Emissions Vehicle" can have a sizeable Carbon footprint. At any rate my point is that any Electric Vehicle's "Zero" emissions has a emissions number associated with it that is definitively more the "Zero". Maybe I'm just being to nitt picky but, the whole "ZEV" thing seems like false advertising to me.

Sharkgirl
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19 Jul 2012, 6:12 am

I agree with you, its only one part of the puzzle to produce cars that can have batteries charged.
We need to be providing alternative sources of energy to power up the batteries too.

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ruveyn
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19 Jul 2012, 6:32 am

If you want zero carbon emissions electricity pave North America over with breeder reactors.

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19 Jul 2012, 7:01 am

or move somewhere where power from alternative sources are the same price as that of coal and gas.

happened 6 months ago in denmark.

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PTSmorrow
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19 Jul 2012, 10:13 am

The only real ZEV's are bicycles, horse drawn vehicles, and cars that operate solely on solar power; everything else is false labeling.

ruveyn
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19 Jul 2012, 11:53 am

PTSmorrow wrote:

The only real ZEV's are bicycles, horse drawn vehicles, and cars that operate solely on solar power; everything else is false labeling.

Electricity produced by water heated by a fission reaction has no carbon foot print.

ruveyn

Rakshasa72
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19 Jul 2012, 12:03 pm

PTSmorrow wrote:

The only real ZEV's are bicycles, horse drawn vehicles, and cars that operate solely on solar power; everything else is false labeling.

Maybe I'm too nit picky but both horses and humans emit carbon when they breath.

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19 Jul 2012, 12:08 pm

Driving around the city lastnight and, I saw a Tesla parked out in front of a restraunt near my house. That's one very cool Vehicle. If I had a spare $250k I'd get one for sure!

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19 Jul 2012, 12:22 pm

Rakshasa72 wrote:

PTSmorrow wrote:

The only real ZEV's are bicycles, horse drawn vehicles, and cars that operate solely on solar power; everything else is false labeling.

Maybe I'm too nit picky but both horses and humans emit carbon when they breath.

That's true, but they breathe anyway just because they're alive; the output is slightly increased by the physical strain, though, but the efficiency, especially when compared with the production and use of electricity, let alone the additional batteries, is incomparably higher.

Even if we assume the required energy would be produced exclusively through hydropower and solar technology, there's still the problem of storage and distribution, whereas your own or your horses' power are immediately available. Another aspect, bicycles and horse-drawn wagons don't need electronic equipment, thus they are produced and maintained at a fraction of the costs caused by a car.

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19 Jul 2012, 12:36 pm

PTSmorrow wrote:

The only real ZEV's are bicycles, horse drawn vehicles, and cars that operate solely on solar power; everything else is false labeling.

Some cyclists may have a few emissions of their own, but horses DEFINITELY do!

Seriously, this being a big cowboy place, it's been analyzed what it'd be like if people still used horse vehicles - the urine and feces from so many horses would turn the place toxic!

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19 Jul 2012, 4:18 pm

i cant remember where i saw it, but apearantly a large dog can be as costly to the enviroment as a car.

might be urban myth

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19 Jul 2012, 8:51 pm

Horses do emit "road apples," but those are at least biodegradable. And I suppose that's the thing -- the biosphere has evolved so that those waste products are not a problem. (Though, at equivalent rates of energy expenditure it would be a massive problem.)

So, maybe if we put a lot more pollution into the environment the biosphere will evolve to incorporate it into the "circle of life." Birds that absorb and digest soda-can retainers on contact? Animals that can't survive at temperatures less than 200 degrees F?

Better yet, why not spread radioactive material around and wait for the biosphere to adapt to that? That would remove the biggest obstacle against nuclear energy: fear of radioactive contamination. Cesium might become a human nutritional supplement.

(Note: none of the above suggestions are serious.)

Can things like solar & wind provide enough on their own, or is the only way out of the carbon-emission trap nuclear?

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20 Jul 2012, 7:09 am

Rakshasa72 wrote:

PTSmorrow wrote:

The only real ZEV's are bicycles, horse drawn vehicles, and cars that operate solely on solar power; everything else is false labeling.

Maybe I'm too nit picky but both horses and humans emit carbon when they breath.

Have you ever smelled a bike rider after he has been out on a hot humid day?

ruveyn

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20 Jul 2012, 9:57 am

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

yes they can, if you use all of them combined, ie wind, solar, hydro(wave and dam), and have a way of storing the energy,

unfortunately the amount of resources it takes to get there would probably do more dammage than putting up a liquid thorium reactor in the first place.

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20 Jul 2012, 11:08 am

ruveyn wrote:

Rakshasa72 wrote:

PTSmorrow wrote:

The only real ZEV's are bicycles, horse drawn vehicles, and cars that operate solely on solar power; everything else is false labeling.

Maybe I'm too nit picky but both horses and humans emit carbon when they breath.

Have you ever smelled a bike rider after he has been out on a hot humid day?

ruveyn

First, since i am a bike rider myself i can tell you the following, if one takes a shower, deodorizes, and puts on fresh clothes before a ride, they won't smell since fresh sweat is odorless. Only a person who doesn't apply proper hygiene is going to smell.

Second, people don't need to ride a bike in order to emit carbon, they will do so to a greater extent than at rest also through physical work, exercising, and sex, so you would have to close all gyms in order to reduce emissions.

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21 Jul 2012, 2:30 am

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

Horses do emit "road apples," but those are at least biodegradable.

Yes, but imagine a city with 500,000 horses urinating and defecating everywhere they go... that city would be a filthy cesspool. This isn't pure speculation either, there's scientific and real-world evidence to support that.

Quote:

Can things like solar & wind provide enough on their own, or is the only way out of the carbon-emission trap nuclear?

It could if the technologies were much more refined than they are now... if as much research was put into that as there is into new-and-improved toothpaste, I suspect we'd be there already.
City-scale energy storage is the next needed step and a few VERY clever groups are starting to come up with cheap, viable solutions! After all, the biggest downside to electricity is that it has to be used or stored immediately or it's lost forever.

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