Men's rights.

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Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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10 Aug 2012, 1:02 am

http://www.avoiceformen.com/

Take a look if you want and i suggest anybody that does to look at all the details and think for yourself.

They do use sarcasm on the website and on their youtube videos.

I am pretty sure someone will call this misogyny/misogynist, IT IS NOT!

Last edited by ImjustRandom on 16 Aug 2012, 8:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Who_Am_I
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10 Aug 2012, 1:31 am

Just from the first page:

- At a glance, at least 3 instances of "feminist" used as a pejorative term.

Quote:

the feminists began to cry and play helpless, like little girls looking for a rescue by Daddy.

Quote:

Why women’s shelters are hotbeds of misandry

Quote:

Arthur Goldwag, liberal, feminist, consummate liar, is all upset at MRAs again.

Of course, they weren't trying to associate the terms "liberal" and "feminist" with "consummate liar". It was just coincidence that they were in the same list.

Quote:

A call to asses and snivelers
Ernest Adams got himself all riled up at his fellow male gamers because he didn’t care for how they talked about the wimmenfolk. Apparently he got plenty riled, because now he is issuing orders to the world. “Act like a real man, just like me.”

So he's a bad person for getting pissed off about the "tits or GTFO" attitude that is EVERYWHERE in gaming?

Quote:

Pop psychology has given us an ethical mandate to honor our emotional states. But what about hate, asks Cooter Bee. Is it not an emotion like any other? By denying it within ourselves are we not denying it as another component of our humanity?

Hatred is cool! Rational self-examination is for losers!

Quote:

Any given social movement can be boiled down to a list of issues that pinpoint the reason for its existence. According to these lists, feminism is about baking without shame and other pressing matters, poorly defined.

lol strawman

Quote:

Poor, invisible, oppressed women

I could use those type of sh***y arguing tactics too if I had half a brain. Fortunately, I have a whole brain.

They might have a good message (I didn't bother reading past the first page because of all the crap I quoted above), but it's being lost in all the bile they're spewing.

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Declension
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10 Aug 2012, 2:00 am

The men's movement is a perfectly sensible idea in theory, but in practice it just tends to mirror the simplistic rhetoric of the perceived "enemy".

In my experience, self-declared feminists are usually worth talking to, even if they may be wrongheaded about certain things. Self-declared men's rights activists are never worth talking to.

hyperlexian
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10 Aug 2012, 2:01 am

i clicked an article and this way my result:

Quote:

This public conception depends, of course, on ignoring the fact that rape is committed by women as well as men, in nearly equal numbers[1][2]

that's incorrect, so it makes me suspect the site. one of the sources he quoted for that assertion was not legitimate, and the other one didn't support his point. :!:

still, i gave it another try. i clicked another article.

Quote:

feminism never ever had a legitimate claim.

oh, ok. so women shouldn't have fought for the right to vote (for example) or the right to choose to have a hysterectomy without our husband's consent because... we never had any legitimate claims?

that's pretty abhorrent.

but for the sake of argument, i'll click one more article.

in the last article i could stomach, the writer doesn't explain the contents of some signs that were posted (which some women objected to). he actually states that the posters assert:

Quote:

men have human rights

but that is not what the posters actually say. the content is distinct from that statement. well, obviously, or nobody would have objected to them. interestingly, most of the men's rights blogs that reposted the same article did not actually speak of the specific content involved. the posters imply that all women (or perhaps all of society) hate and fear all men, and that fact somehow violates men's rights. it's an interesting idea, but for some reason nobody is blogging about the idea itself.

also, no legitimate news sites have reported on that alleged incident.

i believe that there are some ways that men are disadvantaged in our current society, and i personally fight for changes in those areas. but making up statistics, deriding the women's movement as "not having a legitimate claim" and misrepresenting a men's rights poster is not a particularly effective way to go about it. so i'll give the blog a pass.

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invisiblesilent
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10 Aug 2012, 8:03 am

I was going to go read it until I read the responses and quotes.

It seems the men who wrote this have fallen into the exact same trap as the writers of the sloppy feminist articles I read in the newspapers all the time i.e. going way beyond feminism/masculinism and out of the other side into blatant misandry/misogyny. It kinda relates to another thread that is ongoing here, the one about people not liking to be corrected or opposed. The f***wits on both sides of this debate do more harm than damage to their respective sides but are so bought into their ideology that they *cannot* have their minds changed so any opposition becomes a threat... so from that point on, in their mind, anyone who disagrees with them must me a misogynist/misandrist, right? I hate that BS logic and it's just as annoying coming from other men as it is when it comes from the "feminist" (misandrist) writers in the Independent and Guardian.

HisDivineMajesty
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10 Aug 2012, 10:09 am

hyperlexian wrote:

that's incorrect, so it makes me suspect the site. one of the sources he quoted for that assertion was not legitimate, and the other one didn't support his point.

As you may or may not have noticed, one source was an excerpt from the other. The estimated number of women forcibly penetrated during a 12-month period was said to be 1,270,000. The estimated number of men said to have been forced to penetrate was 1,267,000. That seems to make enough sense, although it did not measure correctly to support that claim. As there were no known figures on men being penetrated - which, admittedly, would not constitute reliable or proper figures as men are not subject to that in general terms - they used the definition for 'being forced to penetrate'. That could be considered rape.

While their wording is too strong to be listened to, they do have a point - men have fewer legal rights than women. If men have been tricked into impregnating a woman, they are not just unable to decide on abortion - they can, in some jurisdictions, be forced to provide financial support for the child they made clear they did not want to have. Some feminists, worryingly, replied to that by saying "it's a woman's right, not a man's." Of course, when the draft is called up, it's eerily quiet from that front, because a woman's body is a woman's choice, but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Women have special legal excuses in court, and are generally sentenced to fewer and lower prison terms, and are rarely executed in the United States. Meanwhile, men are more likely to be the victim of violent crime, even if rape is added to that total. They are more likely to be victims of homicide and much more likely to die in work-related accidents.

hanyo
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10 Aug 2012, 2:04 pm

"Male space is a social space which is male controlled, without apology or accommodation to females. For the slow learners in class today, its sadly necessary to point out that both male spaces and female spaces are healthy and necessary in a non-dysfunctional society. Female spaces are relatively common. The women’s center at any major university, women’s gym’s and fitness clubs, a female social club, book club, knitting circle, tea-drinking or women’s locker-room. These are all female spaces, and their existence is appropriate and healthy in a functional society. Male spaces are equally important and necessary, but our society at present doesn’t allow for such to exist. Online gaming was, until recently one of the very last reserves of male space. The ongoing erasure of un-policed male social space is deeply dysfunctional, and one sign that our society is increasingly hateful towards male identity."

That's pretty sexist. Those "female spaces" are places I've never been and never would go. Since when is online gaming a "male space"? I played video games most of my life and didn't even know it was supposed to be "for boys" until I got online.

I don't like most of these men's rights groups as they just seen to be sexist guys that want to go back to "the good old days" when women obeyed them and were in the kitchen making them a sandwich.

I don't know how to find it but I remember once seeing a men's right's page that didn't seem sexist and they just wanted to be equal.

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10 Aug 2012, 2:42 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

that's incorrect, so it makes me suspect the site. one of the sources he quoted for that assertion was not legitimate, and the other one didn't support his point.

that (bolded) does not equal nearly identical rates of rape or sexual assault for men and women, period. that is what the first article misrepresented and subsequent articles requoted. also, that study was only concerned with various types of assault and abuse between long term partners, not for men and women overall. the MRA article did not make any distinction whatsoever about that.

here are some actual facts from the original study. the penetration numbers you quoted do not exist on in these summaries, so i don't know where you got that from.

it's worthy of noting that women are over 10 times more likely to be raped by a partner in their lifetime than a man is, which is so very different from what the article is claiming. the original article's misrepresentation is pretty blatant and makes me distrustful of the site, because they are trying to changing public policy by manufacturing facts.

one article is even tagged "lying feminist scumbags" yet this article is also lying. that isn't just bad journalism, it's a rallying cry based on a deliberate misrepresentation.

what is interesting is that the same misrepresentstion is quoted over and over again in blogs and in comments on feminist articles and youtube videos, yet not one of those people bothered to do any fact-checking. you would think that ONE of them would have flagged that original article's misleading information. but apparently not.

i agree that there are some areas that need an improvement in equality between men and women (though we may disagree about which specific areas), but the MRA movement isn't helping that cause.

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Last edited by hyperlexian on 10 Aug 2012, 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DrPenguin
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10 Aug 2012, 3:41 pm

Growing up I was taught feminists were useless idiots who were going to cause more harm than good (this was by my great nan who raised me). She dominated our family as matriarch as she was the best suited. We were taught to disregard race, sex or any other factor (when they have no relation to the evaluation, and even then keep an open mind) and judge people by there use/worth and any positive discrimination is wrong. I do agree with the site though I was a member of a men only club ((Lot like some US ones) (Did have 3 Family days a week Mon, Thu, Sat) where I used to go to play cards, domino's, pool and snooker with the lads (they could enjoy time away from there wives, gf and kids and pretend to be 18 again (was like relationship therapy for them)). That all came to an end when a feminist group (lead by one ff complained that it was sexist and they should let anyone in.

Ok it didn't bother me too much (single and used to go clubbing after with other mates (a few had wives/gf too untrusting/jealous (like I would have a friend like that) to let them) but it stopped the only times a week my mates could be away from there wives/gf and directly lead to at least 2 divorces and a break up (every time he went out she followed (and yes they were in love and completely faithful before).

I do like my nans solution to rapists (a pair of house bricks applied surgically) but know too many guys who have been wrongly accused (one friend was asleep on my floor when he was meant to be attacking the woman (we put her in a taxi (and paid(real taxi, know the driver (nice bloke plus gay)). The guy was at a party of 6-8 guys at the time but still the 'rape' accusation made the local paper with her accusation described (He was found innocent but the paper , it posted 42 words on the letters page saying that but didn't mention the woman's suspended sentence (she'd made several accusations before)

I am guilty of one discrimination though the belief that no real man would ever harm a woman no matter what, I got several bad bruises from a drunken girl gang in London as I couldn't block blows in-case I hurt them (had to move so they damaged themselves by hitting me). Overall men are violent and controlled but there's nothing more scarey than a violent gang of women.

ImjustRandom
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10 Aug 2012, 6:22 pm

invisiblesilent wrote:

You should really look at the website for yourself.

ImjustRandom
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10 Aug 2012, 6:40 pm

DrPenguin wrote:

I hate it when girls use violence by proxy.

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10 Aug 2012, 10:09 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

Quote:

feminism never ever had a legitimate claim.

oh, ok. so women shouldn't have fought for the right to vote (for example) or the right to choose to have a hysterectomy without our husband's consent because... we never had any legitimate claims?

It's because of the religious conservative propaganda that teaches it's the women's duty to be a housewife

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hyperlexian
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11 Aug 2012, 1:16 am

ImjustRandom wrote:

I am pretty sure someone will call this misogyny/misogynist, IT IS NOT!

did you notice that people gave it a fair shot and didn't do any namecalling like you suggested? even giving the site a fair shot results in widespread disappointment, apparently.

are there ANY legitimate and factually accurate men's rights blogs? i would be interested in reading one that didn't make up data or use emotional rhetoric to inflame readers.

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ImjustRandom
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11 Aug 2012, 1:25 am

hyperlexian wrote:

ImjustRandom wrote:

I am pretty sure someone will call this misogyny/misogynist, IT IS NOT!

Actually on a Facebook group where i all so post the link someone was calling it misogynist.

hyperlexian
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11 Aug 2012, 1:38 am

ImjustRandom wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

ImjustRandom wrote:

I am pretty sure someone will call this misogyny/misogynist, IT IS NOT!

Actually on a Facebook group where i all so post the link someone was calling it misogynist.

this isn't Facebook. in general WPers are different - they have a strong interest in viewing things with a fair minded and critical eye... therefore they may actually be harsher than people on other websites because they are willing to do the legwork to expose strawmen, misinformation, and flimsy arguments of all sorts instead of just slapping on labels. i've had very good intellectual dialogues here as compared to other sites.

(and nick007, i think you are onto something there!)

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ImjustRandom
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11 Aug 2012, 1:55 am

hyperlexian wrote:

ImjustRandom wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

ImjustRandom wrote:

I am pretty sure someone will call this misogyny/misogynist, IT IS NOT!

Actually on a Facebook group where i all so post the link someone was calling it misogynist.

No i guess i was just preventing someone from doing it before i would think to suggest it.

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