Kids on the spectrum and School....

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Hi all

Great site, looking forward to chatting with you all!

I'm after your experiences and opinions regarding children on the spectrum at school....

I was told that if a child has any one of the Autism spectrum Disorders their behaviours would be consisitent throughtout the day. IE if the children are having tantrums, rigid behaviours, obsessive behaviours and others associated with spectrum disorders at home then they would be showing these same behaviours at school as well.

What are your thoughts? Do you think it is possible that a child on the spectrum can control their emotions and impulses at school and show no obvious signs to teachers etc? Or is the behaviour usually more consistent; what you see at home you see at school?

Thanks so much, looking forward to reading your replies

I don't know who told you that their behaviour would remain the same at school as at home. Although my girls are as yet undiagnosed, both awaiting assessment, I would be stunned if I was told they don't have AS as they have all the behaviours. Both of them are now home educated but did used to go to school. The thing I could never understand is that they would be placid at school but have meltdowns away from school. I have read many stories from other parents who found the same.

In fact, in the National Autistic Society booklet on autism, there is a story on a lady and her 5 year old daughter who has autism, this is what she said "Sometimes you feel as a parent that you're not listened to at school because things that you see at home, like the meltdowns, the sensory overload, are not seen in school."

Children with autism usually need routine, and school is so structured and rigid that it usually serves their need, they know what's coming next in the day. It's often the unstructured environment that causes them the most difficulty.

http://www.autism.org.uk/diagnosisguide
“Relying on observation of the child
There is a common source of diagnostic confusion, particularly with more able children. In structured situations with experienced staff and close supervision, such as during psychological testing, or in a well organised classroom, an individual with an autistic disorder may show no obvious signs of autistic behaviour, and the subtle signs can easily be missed. The best setting in which to observe autistic behaviour is one that is unstructured and in which the individual is unsupervised and undirected. For children, free play in the school playground with no staff supervision is particularly likely to bring out the autistic pattern.”

Hi thanks for your reply.

It was my Son's Pediatrician who made the comment....

This is exactly how it is for me at the moment. I get looked down upon by my Son's teacher if I ask if he is doing certain things at school that he does at home. I'm sure she thinks I'm an idiot! She in fact laughed at me when I asked her if she see's him "ticking". I'm assuming that she doesnt notice him sniff everything he picks up lately either....I'm losing my energy with the so called experts....Sometimes I feel I'm going crazy, because my DH myself and a few friends are the only ones who see it....


I'm interested to hear what other forum members have to say as well regarding this.

Thanks again for your reply!

I home educate, but there are many aspies who hold it all together at school. Then they come home and explode with all the build up stress of school. Other aspies cannot do that, and the school cannot deal with all their weird behavior and stress.

I have an idea that he might show is true colors at school eventually. I don't know how old your child is. My son was in a homeschool class on Friday where he did really well b/c of the high level of structure. In his third year, he was harder to handle, especially when he knew all the answers and the other kids didn't.

Thanks AAnn

I'm thinking this also. Unfortunately he seems to be struggling more after school the older he gets, hence exploding over minor issues minutes after he gets home from school.

My son is now 7. DX mild autism at 3.5, dodgy (non private) review done at 5, results; Speech Language delay not autism causing symptoms!??? Long story.

Currently started seeing a private psych for hour long tantrums etc.

Will be interesting to see how this goes

I believe in the right environment, but not when forced into the social dynamic of cohabitation with NT's.

Pediatricians are not experts in developmental disorders. They mostly know about NT kids They tend to have very narrow,stereotypes that they work from, for everything else. My son is very snuggly and that threw our first ped. He referred us for behavioral issues because he cried so much during appointments. He passed the phone screen because he was smart. Again, stereotypes.

My son tends to behave better during the summer because he can handle unstructured time in the security of home (0,0,0) and with all his stuff and his mommy, whereas he cannot handle unstructured time at school. He also does not like other people being in charge of his day and restricting his behaviors for what appears to be no good reason. He cannot understand why he can't color in red, when they say blue, or can't talk when he wants to and other things, too.

As difficult as that is, he tries to control himself at school best he can, and so I usually get the worst of the meltdowns when he comes home during the school year, followed by the stuff he can't control at school. Vacations are not too bad. Does he act more or less autistic at home? I would not word it that way. I think he just acts different.

The things is, the school will require that his autistic behaviors are apparent in multiple environments, but particularly at school, to help him. So you need to figure out how what he does at school jives with the current DSM definitions.

My son has the opposite problem. He's great at home, where I can adjust to his "rules" and help him through times when his expectations don't meet reality. But at school where his little square peg is forced into their round hole, it doesn't work at all. What's especially frustrating is that he will do fantastic for days, and then one little thing will go wrong, and he's so black and white that if something goes wrong it just explodes for him, and it seems like it comes out of no where.

I actually have my first IEP of the year this afternoon. That was an unbelieveable amount of pulling teeth, getting a meeting before school starts. But he's going to a new school with a brand new teacher and they're starting a new program for kids with autism, so giving everyone a heads up about what to expect was definitely the way to go. I'm thinking this is going to be an ugly meeting, though, because the school doesn't like to be told what to do. Even though in the past when they finally give in to whatever my suggestions are, it's like flipping a light switch, the change is remarkable and swift for my son. Girding my loins as I speak for the fight...

That's a bunch of nonsense, saying behaviors will show up both at school and at home. Lots of sources, including Tony Atwood, agree that many Aspies have the "Jekyll and Hyde syndrome," where they are angels at school and act out at home (where they feel comfortable) or vice versa (because they have trouble obeying teachers/authority). I was always the "teacher's pet" at school, never causing trouble. But when I'd get home, I'd let out all of my stress. Same is true now for my job. This is the main reason why I went undiagnosed for so long.

Mine, too! DS does fine at home where he can mostly do what he wants, and I can give him lots of space to calm down. School is where we get 90% of the big meltdowns.

Your pediatrician is wrong. Period. I find that except for those professionals who routinely deal with autism, it is surprising how many have outdated and stereotypical views of autism. I am probably in the minority: when my pediatrician suggested I bring my daughter to a neurologist for an evaluation, I asked him if he thought she was autistic. His response was that he was not qualified to even consider whether or not she was, which was why he was referring me to someone who could.

When younger, my son's behavior was worse at school. Too many demands he couldn't meet, and no focus to figure out what to do about it. My daughter's behavior is better at school. Although I think it is very illustrative to mention that it was deplorable at after school at first. She did everything she could to hold it together at school, but by the end of after school, she simply couldn't keep it up anymore. But no matter where she is, the more comfortable she gets the more the autism shows through.

Another thing to consider is that depending upon how your son is presenting at school, his autism might actually make him look like the "model" student, and the teacher may not even see the underlying issues. My daughter is very smart and tends to be quiet, especially in unfamiliar environments where she doesn't understand the rules. She also does not understand a lot of the normal childhood social stuff (like "She sat with her last time! It's my turn to sit with her!" or "Don't be friends with so and so!") and since she doesn't understand it, she doesn't engage in it and does not get caught up in it. It makes her teachers think she is "incredibly mature for her age" when really it has nothing to do with maturity. It has to do with not getting it. And because she takes rules very literally and seriously, she does not talk when she is not supposed to, she does not "goof around," which again, makes her a model student and I am not saying any of these things are bad. It's just that the teacher doesn't see that the behaviors are the result of deficits, not strengths. I want to make it clear, I am proud of my daugther's good behavior in an academic setting and I think all in all it serves her well. It's just that sometimes it makes her teachers expect a degree of true maturity from her, which she simply doesn't possess yet.

I think something that is misunderstood is the idea that the symptoms defining AS as personality features do not change, no matter the environment. However, how they present and the problems such as meltdowns, anxiety, stimming behaviors, amount of eye contact, etc do change with environment. They depend on many things: structure, knowledge of rule/expectations, abilities, interest, sensitivities, anxiety, familiarity, and much more.

It depends upon their personality and functional abilities IMO, After that you have to take into account what environmental factors come into play, such as stress from the workload, interpersonal relationships within the classroom (i.e. friendships, bullying), whether the teacher is competent or even well organized to maintain structure within the classroom. even such things as the arrangement of the room or the presence of any physical distractions such as bright colors or a flickering florescent light bulb. Let's not forget the basic things like a good night's sleep, any kind of allergy or a lack of a good meal before school. Any kind of discomfort can throw any kid's concentration off. If something affects them significantly, then I could definitely see this affecting a child's ability to self-regulate.

Long story short though, every child is different. The best thing you can do is try and prepare your child for the experience beforehand. With luck, maybe they'll blossom because of a good teacher, an engaging lesson plan or even a friendship with a classmate. If your child has a special need - such as a favorite piece of clothing or some sort of ritual that helps him/her self regulate then I would provide that and inform the teacher of it so that it is not taken away - unless it is a distraction to the other children. If so, then arrange for him/her to have it before, after or even between classes. For example, my wife's young cousin would undergo deep pressure between classes to aid with his concentration.

One thing that I would do is to get informed advice from a specialist such as a developmental or child psychologist and not a general practitioner such as a pediatrician or even a layperson like another parent such as myself. Even a teacher's advice should be suspect. Of course, I'm just offering my perspective since my son has gone into and once again out of public education in favor of a private school that is better-equipped to meet his needs and respond to disruptive behaviors. Whatever you do, have your child evaluated by a third party psychologist and have them suggest an integrated education plan. A school should be bound by law to abide by such a plan.

I agree with most of the observations in this thread, but NOT the ones that suggest kids who behave better at school do so because of the structure. They do so because they feel less safe there, and put more focus into following the rules regardless of how much stress they are under. They let their stress build up until they are home and feel they can safely release it.

My son has a totally different carriage and presence when he is under stress and holding it together because he has to. I saw that often when I picked him up and knew to immediately move him into something self-calming. I can't believe there are experts wanting to assume school is the lower stress environment; how destructive that assumption can be when the opposite happens to be true. Thank God no one ever threw that theory at me, or I would have totally missed the boat on what to do for my son.

Very frequently, children with AS or HFA do very well at school and then have a "melt down" when they get home.