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thomas81
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24 Aug 2012, 6:09 pm

I've watched NT behaviour for a while since being diagnosed ASD and its occured to me that some NT's are more 'normal' than others. Quite often I've come across NT's with ASD characteristics that are too 'normal' to be classed ASD while there are NT's without any discernable ASD traits and are masters in socialising and other abstract arts like fashion and trend following. This has led me to conclude that it is unfair to presume that the neurological spectrum should begin and end with autism, in fact it should stretch across the full range of neurological groups from what I call 'low functioning neurotypical' to 'low functioning autistic'.

Here is how i think it should look-

LF-NT----------HF-NT------------HF-ASD/AS-----------LF-ASD



smileybro
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24 Aug 2012, 7:05 pm

Love that theory Thomas81, and as a corollary, the "Reaspy" (resdiual Asperger's in someone that has "made it "in the NT world is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! :P



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24 Aug 2012, 7:13 pm

thomas81 wrote:
I've watched NT behaviour for a while since being diagnosed ASD and its occured to me that some NT's are more 'normal' than others. Quite often I've come across NT's with ASD characteristics that are too 'normal' to be classed ASD while there are NT's without any discernable ASD traits and are masters in socialising and other abstract arts like fashion and trend following. This has led me to conclude that it is unfair to presume that the neurological spectrum should begin and end with autism, in fact it should stretch across the full range of neurological groups from what I call 'low functioning neurotypical' to 'low functioning autistic'.

Here is how i think it should look-

LF-NT----------HF-NT------------HF-ASD/AS-----------LF-ASD


But as you said some NTs have ASD characteristics, do you not mean that those ones are the LF-NTs and therefore you would need to swap LF-NT to where you've got HF-NT and vice versa? Because HF-NTs would be the polar opposite to the LF-ASD.


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redrobin62
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24 Aug 2012, 8:05 pm

I guess whether or not you're LF-NT, HF-NT, HF-ASD/AS or LF-ASD, you'll still be forced to get a job that will bring you days or nights of pain, misery and suffering. Doesn't life suck sometimes?



lostgirl1986
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24 Aug 2012, 8:13 pm

I just think about it as neurodiversity. Everybody is different with different traits and personalities. Everybody was raised differently and has gone through different things in life. People also have different mental disorders. I also think a lot of people who have the INTJ personality could easily get confused as an aspie as well. There's a certain amount of key pieces to make you an aspie.

I'm a strong believer that we should treat everybody as an individual.



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24 Aug 2012, 9:16 pm

lostgirl1986 wrote:
I just think about it as neurodiversity. Everybody is different with different traits and personalities. Everybody was raised differently and has gone through different things in life. People also have different mental disorders. I also think a lot of people who have the INTJ personality could easily get confused as an aspie as well. There's a certain amount of key pieces to make you an aspie.

I'm a strong believer that we should treat everybody as an individual.


Well, I used to be confused as INTJ until I found out I was aspie. Same thing perhaps.



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24 Aug 2012, 9:42 pm

I think the LF-NT is meant to be basically someone with the exact opposite kind of problems as the LF-ASD. Namely, extreme deficiencies in systemizing, following rules, pathological lack of strong interests, etc. Perhaps a mentally ret*d NT.

That being said, I don't WANT to become fully NT. I'd probably want my Aspie score (in my signature) to remain at least 60. I don't want to lose my Aspie talents! And I've always wondered why the Aspie and NT scores don't quite add to 200...


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24 Aug 2012, 10:01 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
I guess whether or not you're LF-NT, HF-NT, HF-ASD/AS or LF-ASD, you'll still be forced to get a job that will bring you days or nights of pain, misery and suffering. Doesn't life suck sometimes?

Or you could find a job that suits you just fine and enjoy going to work each morning. Sure life sucks sometimes. But other times it's just grand.


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yellowtamarin
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24 Aug 2012, 10:51 pm

You have basically copied the Extreme Male Brain theory of Austism's scale, except related it to level of functioning rather than level of empathising vs systemising. Simon Baron-Cohen's model looks like this:

Extreme Type E -- Type E -- Type B -- Type S -- Extreme Type S

E = empathising
B = balanced
S = systemising

The issue with your model is, due to what is generally valued in a society, it is much harder to find a LF-NT. The F stands for Functioning, which refers to functioning within the society. Those on the far left still fit into society much better than those on the far right, generally.



thomas81
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25 Aug 2012, 1:44 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:

The issue with your model is, due to what is generally valued in a society, it is much harder to find a LF-NT.


They're probably more numerious than you think. I'm fairly confident that my employers are LFNT's because their thought paradigm is the one that the business world seems to orientate around. Sometime in the 1990's the cartoonist Scott Adams observed a phenomenon in the business world called the 'dilbert principle' and despite its satirical intent is depressingly true to the real world.

For examples of LF-NT's in the public eye I look to the Paris Hiltons and Courtney Kardashians of this world. Masters of socialising and status climbing, hopeless at the 'tangible disciplines'.

Image



thomas81
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25 Aug 2012, 1:54 pm

Comp_Geek_573 wrote:
I think the LF-NT is meant to be basically someone with the exact opposite kind of problems as the LF-ASD. Namely, extreme deficiencies in systemizing, following rules, pathological lack of strong interests, etc.

Yes, exact opposite challenges, exact opposite skills.
Comp_Geek_573 wrote:
Perhaps a mentally ret*d NT.

Generally not. LF-NT's as I theorise them, tend to be the most successful because the world is run by their system of thinking.
They rise to the top in the religious clergy, politics, economics, and in the mass media or fashion industries for example.



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25 Aug 2012, 1:57 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDF_AfD8Z00&feature=plcp
7:30
I think these graphs explain your theory quite well (I know all Aspies aren't smart, but that's besides my point).


I also have a similar theory (Please tell me if it doesn't make sense :/).
I think:

Let's say, for example, there are 100 Aspie genes (I'm just making all these numbers up), people with 90-100 of said genes, cannot look after themselves. NTs have 0-70 of these genes, and people with "mild" Aspergers have 71-89 of these genes.

So, the NTs with 60-something genes will be "more Aspie-ish", than the ones with around 7 Aspie genes, while still not meeting the diagnostic criteria.


It's said that all people are on the spectrum.


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Last edited by SteffiTheSmile on 25 Aug 2012, 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Nonperson
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25 Aug 2012, 1:58 pm

I agree. To me it seems like "more AS" people have more single-pointed attention (tunnel vision) and are more interested in the content than in how something is communicated, while NTs are more unfocused (multitasking or simply alert) and more interested in the context. A low-functioning NT would be someone who would have a lot of trouble with logic, because everything would be personal and relative to the social dynamics in the group having the conversation, and because he would lack the attention span to follow it anyway. Sorry if that sounds insulting to NTs. ;) Obviously tunnel-vision to the point of missing the context has its drawbacks as well.

I think such a LF-NT could become very popular and powerful, although they probably wouldn't be great students or do well in the sciences.



Joe90
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25 Aug 2012, 2:48 pm

I don't get it.


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thomas81
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25 Aug 2012, 2:48 pm

Nonperson wrote:
I think such a LF-NT could become very popular and powerful, although they probably wouldn't be great students or do well in the sciences.

No, but like I said they excel at business and politics.

In order for an autistic to be successful at business they need a hands on skill at their industry. Thus this explains Bill Gates. I can't think of any Autistics who excelled at politics. Other than the possible exceptions of Hitler or Colonel Gadaffi but I am sure that most here wouldn't want to be associated with either.



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25 Aug 2012, 2:55 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
You have basically copied the Extreme Male Brain theory of Austism's scale, except related it to level of functioning rather than level of empathising vs systemising. Simon Baron-Cohen's model looks like this:

Extreme Type E -- Type E -- Type B -- Type S -- Extreme Type S

E = empathising
B = balanced
S = systemising

The issue with your model is, due to what is generally valued in a society, it is much harder to find a LF-NT. The F stands for Functioning, which refers to functioning within the society. Those on the far left still fit into society much better than those on the far right, generally.


But we all know that the Extreme Male Brain theory is BS, brain scans proved that people with AS have more androgynous brains.


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